Still$given-
Hi Forr,
With all due respect, the thread topic asks for "Listening impressions" For some reason I get the impression that you have not listened to one. Do you have something against Hugh?
Please, let's not muddy the waters. Many of us are curious how this amp actually sounds in comparison to some of the other popular DIY amps.
Blessings, Terry
---------------------------------------------------------------
i agree with you so far this thread has failed to tell us anything
about the sonic details etc....
aksa-
All amps should be judged on their sound, though looks play a part too, just like everything else
---------------------------------------------------------------
looks are better left off the topic
you guys abviously are not professional reviewers it is quite obvious this thread is going nowhere, how these amps compare
to ska and other forum amps such as symasym,pass zen etc...?
without an ab listening comparison we have no way of knowing
subjective evaluations, why dont you send these amps to stereophile.com to be reviewed by professionals and see how
they compare to other high-end offerings
Regards
Hi Forr,
With all due respect, the thread topic asks for "Listening impressions" For some reason I get the impression that you have not listened to one. Do you have something against Hugh?
Please, let's not muddy the waters. Many of us are curious how this amp actually sounds in comparison to some of the other popular DIY amps.
Blessings, Terry
---------------------------------------------------------------
i agree with you so far this thread has failed to tell us anything
about the sonic details etc....
aksa-
All amps should be judged on their sound, though looks play a part too, just like everything else
---------------------------------------------------------------
looks are better left off the topic
you guys abviously are not professional reviewers it is quite obvious this thread is going nowhere, how these amps compare
to ska and other forum amps such as symasym,pass zen etc...?
without an ab listening comparison we have no way of knowing
subjective evaluations, why dont you send these amps to stereophile.com to be reviewed by professionals and see how
they compare to other high-end offerings
Regards
MT,
Most of the big mags have a no advertising/no review policy.
When you think this through you can understand why, and you might consider the effect this has on 'objective' reviewing!
If you think they are objective, you may be wrong.
Of course most of the guys here are not professional reviewers; I'd say they are rather more truthful, wouldn't you?
Cheers,
Hugh
Most of the big mags have a no advertising/no review policy.
When you think this through you can understand why, and you might consider the effect this has on 'objective' reviewing!
If you think they are objective, you may be wrong.
Of course most of the guys here are not professional reviewers; I'd say they are rather more truthful, wouldn't you?
Cheers,
Hugh
One person's opinions
I am not a designer of electronics, I got interested in DIY to learn (I would have said teach myself but most of you are contributing more in that area than am I) electronics.
Nor am I a professional reviewer. Like most, if not all, of you I enjoy listening to music. I also enjoy "comparing" different amps, preamps, etc. So, with this in mind, I offer my listening impressions.
I have built the following amps:
1) AKSA 55
2) AKSA 100
3) P3A (ESP Products)
4) P101(ESP Products)
5) Aleph 5 (home made boards)
6) Paramours (tubes from Bottlehead)
The preamp list is:
1) BOSOZ
2) Aleph P1.7
3) Foreplay (tubes from Bottlhead kit)
Speakers:
1) Linkwitz Orions
2) Northcreek Borealis
3) Zaph Audio Seas system
My points of comparison from the store bought arena (recently) are Quicksilver Mono tubes (8417) and McCormack 0.5's (Quicksilver preamp). Speakers were Snell B-minors.
I must say I have been very pleasantly surprised with the sound quality available from DIY components. I hear differences between the amps but I would be hard pressed to formulate a (prioritized) list. I should mention that I have two listening rooms. The main room is my "home theater" room which, at the moment is a two channel setup (6 channel P3A for the Orions, 2 channel AKSA 100 for the Thor subs). The other "room" is my storeroom where I conduct my DIY efforts. In this room I have the Borealis and Seas speakers.
While I enjoy all the amps I've built so far (I know proud daddy syndrom), if I had to make a list it would go:
1) Aleph 5, Paramours
2) AKSA 55, 100
3) P3A, P101
But the difference between groups is not large.
After the Bottlehead kits, the AKSA kit was my first solid state effort. The entire experience with Aspen was first rate. The kit was very reasonably priced, the manual was easy to follow and the customer service provided was also first rate.
SteveA
I am not a designer of electronics, I got interested in DIY to learn (I would have said teach myself but most of you are contributing more in that area than am I) electronics.
Nor am I a professional reviewer. Like most, if not all, of you I enjoy listening to music. I also enjoy "comparing" different amps, preamps, etc. So, with this in mind, I offer my listening impressions.
I have built the following amps:
1) AKSA 55
2) AKSA 100
3) P3A (ESP Products)
4) P101(ESP Products)
5) Aleph 5 (home made boards)
6) Paramours (tubes from Bottlehead)
The preamp list is:
1) BOSOZ
2) Aleph P1.7
3) Foreplay (tubes from Bottlhead kit)
Speakers:
1) Linkwitz Orions
2) Northcreek Borealis
3) Zaph Audio Seas system
My points of comparison from the store bought arena (recently) are Quicksilver Mono tubes (8417) and McCormack 0.5's (Quicksilver preamp). Speakers were Snell B-minors.
I must say I have been very pleasantly surprised with the sound quality available from DIY components. I hear differences between the amps but I would be hard pressed to formulate a (prioritized) list. I should mention that I have two listening rooms. The main room is my "home theater" room which, at the moment is a two channel setup (6 channel P3A for the Orions, 2 channel AKSA 100 for the Thor subs). The other "room" is my storeroom where I conduct my DIY efforts. In this room I have the Borealis and Seas speakers.
While I enjoy all the amps I've built so far (I know proud daddy syndrom), if I had to make a list it would go:
1) Aleph 5, Paramours
2) AKSA 55, 100
3) P3A, P101
But the difference between groups is not large.
After the Bottlehead kits, the AKSA kit was my first solid state effort. The entire experience with Aspen was first rate. The kit was very reasonably priced, the manual was easy to follow and the customer service provided was also first rate.
SteveA
Hi,
well, I wanted to wait until I have a more objective opinion about Aksa 55 but seeing this thread started I simply could not resist......
I have at my home Aksa 55 Nirvana Plus version.... it is working now for about 45 hours.....
When I first turned that amplifier on I started to listen to it on a Onix OA24 preamplifier. The first thing that I could perceive is that amplifier had (even first turned on - with totaly new parts inside) a huge soundstage that was even better than my Onix OA601 amplifier that I value greatelly.... Also I perceived that amplifier is very dinamic and that sound has a lot of air arround players..... That everything could be heard with first turn on - naturally it can also be heard that amplifier is a little bit confused because not burned in but ..... I was amazed that totally new amplifier can sound that good when first turned on.....
After a few hours I have put my tube preamplifier (arranged arround 12b4 - it is still work in progress) inside the system and removed Onix preamplifier - the sound got even better.....
Now it is running for arround 45 hours - so it is still very young - not fully burned in..... sound is going up and down (first it has bass then it doesn't have , after that it looses soundstage and deatil than it is back again) because the amplfier is not burned in - I suspect that it will be that way for another 100hours maybe, before it setles itself..... but the sound is in general very good and it has a lot of potential.... i am really looking forward to hear it when it is burned in..... since it is now very good.....
the most impresive thing what I can say is that it is very natural, fresh sound and it has ability to reproduce soundstage like I have not heard it in my system... it is almost plastic..... one can hear that the sound is moving through the room..... one can hear like the system is alive so to say..... very, very, very, good......
everything that I have said here is from my point of view with the amplifier that is not fully burned in so I suspect that it will be only better......
give a good preamplfier to that little amplifier and You will be very happy with it..... it is really a special little thing.....
hope this will help to people on this forum that have doubts that they do not get what they pay for that amplifier.... it is very worth to pay for it because you get a lot for your money.....
i will start a new thread when the amplifier is fully burned in and I will report there how the process was going on so that everybody here in the forum know what to expect if they want to buy the kit.
best regards
daniel
well, I wanted to wait until I have a more objective opinion about Aksa 55 but seeing this thread started I simply could not resist......
I have at my home Aksa 55 Nirvana Plus version.... it is working now for about 45 hours.....
When I first turned that amplifier on I started to listen to it on a Onix OA24 preamplifier. The first thing that I could perceive is that amplifier had (even first turned on - with totaly new parts inside) a huge soundstage that was even better than my Onix OA601 amplifier that I value greatelly.... Also I perceived that amplifier is very dinamic and that sound has a lot of air arround players..... That everything could be heard with first turn on - naturally it can also be heard that amplifier is a little bit confused because not burned in but ..... I was amazed that totally new amplifier can sound that good when first turned on.....
After a few hours I have put my tube preamplifier (arranged arround 12b4 - it is still work in progress) inside the system and removed Onix preamplifier - the sound got even better.....
Now it is running for arround 45 hours - so it is still very young - not fully burned in..... sound is going up and down (first it has bass then it doesn't have , after that it looses soundstage and deatil than it is back again) because the amplfier is not burned in - I suspect that it will be that way for another 100hours maybe, before it setles itself..... but the sound is in general very good and it has a lot of potential.... i am really looking forward to hear it when it is burned in..... since it is now very good.....
the most impresive thing what I can say is that it is very natural, fresh sound and it has ability to reproduce soundstage like I have not heard it in my system... it is almost plastic..... one can hear that the sound is moving through the room..... one can hear like the system is alive so to say..... very, very, very, good......
everything that I have said here is from my point of view with the amplifier that is not fully burned in so I suspect that it will be only better......
give a good preamplfier to that little amplifier and You will be very happy with it..... it is really a special little thing.....
hope this will help to people on this forum that have doubts that they do not get what they pay for that amplifier.... it is very worth to pay for it because you get a lot for your money.....
i will start a new thread when the amplifier is fully burned in and I will report there how the process was going on so that everybody here in the forum know what to expect if they want to buy the kit.
best regards
daniel
Lineup, you could as Hugh directly and/or at his support forum.
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=19
... but I'm sure he will tell you here also
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=19
... but I'm sure he will tell you here also
Daniel,
My thanks for your post; appreciated.
The 55N+ contains all new caps, some extremely expensive, such as the Black Gates, different dimensioning on the bootstrap, a revised LTP operating point and changes to the lag comp and phase lead of the amplifier. It would take months of R&D to arrive at these changes; but they do enhance the performance considerably. The problem with Black Gates is that they seem to take about 150 hours before they are fully burned in, and during this time the sound does some weird things. It takes real patience, but the final sound clicks in over a period of about half an hour. It is almost supernatural! The amp can be upgraded any time.
This is absolutely the best I can do with this topology and the results are very good.
I keep trying to extend the boundaries of the performance, but it's getting harder and harder after about five years development.
Cheers,
Hugh
My thanks for your post; appreciated.
The 55N+ contains all new caps, some extremely expensive, such as the Black Gates, different dimensioning on the bootstrap, a revised LTP operating point and changes to the lag comp and phase lead of the amplifier. It would take months of R&D to arrive at these changes; but they do enhance the performance considerably. The problem with Black Gates is that they seem to take about 150 hours before they are fully burned in, and during this time the sound does some weird things. It takes real patience, but the final sound clicks in over a period of about half an hour. It is almost supernatural! The amp can be upgraded any time.
This is absolutely the best I can do with this topology and the results are very good.
I keep trying to extend the boundaries of the performance, but it's getting harder and harder after about five years development.
Cheers,
Hugh
AKSA said:
Dear Hugh,
do not mention it... it is a great amplifier....
LINEUP - the hard part here is to be patient .... one can experience in the burning in period times when she is playing, like You have nicely said - almost supernatural..... my skin is like scared, You know.... it makes me feel that I will loose all of my hair on my arms.... and sometimes when she is down..... I know how it can sound and I almost go crazy..... everything here is normal for that first 150hours ..... so i try not to jump 2 meters high
when she is not working like i know that she can.... joking offcourse....but it is really promising and nice little monster....
also - do pair her with a GOOD quality preamplfier because she can do a lot ...she is a little monster
but a nice monster unfortunately i did not have a standard version so I can't tell how it sounds.......
regards
daniel
I don't think words or comparisons to other amps are going to be adequate to describe the sound of an AKSA 55N+.
You really have to live with it for an extended period and discover what it can do for your music collection as music is the bottom line. I will say that there are 2 traits that really stand out for me.... the soundstage.... the emotion.
The AKSA and the P101 are the only 2 amps that have coped with every speaker I've thrown at it with the others performing their best on certain types of speakers and loads. The technology used and whether it has this or that matters none to me as the way it presents the music is what matters.
I went from the stock AKSA 55 to the N+ upgrade which enhances what was already there so the sound stage improved, resolving power was better and the bottom dug a bit deeper.... worth the upgrade price? Yes! The burn in was painful and I came close to removing the parts but Hugh reassured me that it will happen.... and of course he was right.... again.
As far as liking an amp because you've built it is wrong as I've built some that have been quite disappointing and have been banished to eBay or stripped for parts. When you spend the dollars on an AKSA, you expect a certain level of performance and if it didn't perform, Hugh would be first to know and then followed by the rest of the world. I've read only a small amount of negative comments on the AKSA sound and most of Hugh's buyers are very happy with their purchase and keep coming back for other products that Hugh supplies. The return of customers speaks for itself.
You really have to live with it for an extended period and discover what it can do for your music collection as music is the bottom line. I will say that there are 2 traits that really stand out for me.... the soundstage.... the emotion.
The AKSA and the P101 are the only 2 amps that have coped with every speaker I've thrown at it with the others performing their best on certain types of speakers and loads. The technology used and whether it has this or that matters none to me as the way it presents the music is what matters.
I went from the stock AKSA 55 to the N+ upgrade which enhances what was already there so the sound stage improved, resolving power was better and the bottom dug a bit deeper.... worth the upgrade price? Yes! The burn in was painful and I came close to removing the parts but Hugh reassured me that it will happen.... and of course he was right.... again.
As far as liking an amp because you've built it is wrong as I've built some that have been quite disappointing and have been banished to eBay or stripped for parts. When you spend the dollars on an AKSA, you expect a certain level of performance and if it didn't perform, Hugh would be first to know and then followed by the rest of the world. I've read only a small amount of negative comments on the AKSA sound and most of Hugh's buyers are very happy with their purchase and keep coming back for other products that Hugh supplies. The return of customers speaks for itself.
Rabbitz - i must strongly agree with You - Aksa 55 N+ works on very special way....... it works differently and good.... it really is not behaving as an amplifier..... when it has a good preamplifier the music seems to move air inside and outside the room not just wanting to move air.... it is almost as it wants to breath....to have enough air so to say....
I have just recently built a 55n+ to power R2 raven ribbons, and a 100n+ to power paired Auton mids. They are fully burend in now. I have been listening quite closely for about a couple months. I am not going to try and decribe this like a reviewer because I'm not very good at it. I've jus come from a pair of Highly reguarded SS amps that were modded to good efect. These amps are known for there Straight Wire with Gain sound, very revealing indeed. The AKSA's flat blew them away!! The AKSA's are far more detailed and revealing but somehow manage to make the worts of a bad recoring listenable. A good recording is just mind blowing. The cd's I use to think that were unlistenable are fun and enjoyable to listen to now.
The AKSA's have all the technical presentation that purist might want but with some indifinable ability to make less than perfect recording enjoyable to listen to. Hugh has done an amazing job developing these. The design and parts selecton has already been sorted out, compaired to that assembly is easy!!! The AKSA may not be perfect, but it's so close it dosent seem worth worring about .
The AKSA's have all the technical presentation that purist might want but with some indifinable ability to make less than perfect recording enjoyable to listen to. Hugh has done an amazing job developing these. The design and parts selecton has already been sorted out, compaired to that assembly is easy!!! The AKSA may not be perfect, but it's so close it dosent seem worth worring about .
HIFRYER
"It's sure great to find someone who can compare amplifiers by just
reading schematics."
I can say a lot from the simple view of schematics and tell that there
is no reason why the AKSA amplifier should sound much better than my Sansui amplifier which basically has the same structure. I have perfectly lived with my Sansui but I think, and I am perfectly conscious, that if I may have prefered it for a while, it's due to the fact that more distorsion is often more pleasant than less distorsion, and not because of some unmesurable mysterious features.
HIFRYER
"It's sure great to find someone who can compare amplifiers by just reading schematics. As distortion measurements a la current mirrors etc must lead to sonic Nirvana - all amplifers that need to be designed have already been designed!"
I can only paraphrase :
If the rather standard, a bit old fashionned, architecture of the AKSA
amp must lead to sonic Nirvana, all the amplifiers that need to be designed have already been designed!
Note that op-amps in which the signal has to go through at the recording stage have more ressemblance to power amps with constant current sources and current mirror than any other amp architecture. Is the poor signal is so much affected ?
STILL4GIVEN
"I was trying to keep the thread on topic because I am interested in these amps."
The title of the thread is "AKSA 55, 100 - Listening impressions". I feel as important to concentrate on the second part of the title than on the first.
A curious fact among subjectivist engineers is that they reject the correlation between harmonic distorsion measurements andlistening impressions, but none of them could imagine to setup an amplifier without a scope (which show unlinearities) and a distometer. My own experience in this domain is significative : when I was much younger, I built a preamp and an amp which sound lovely. I just had a voltmeter to check DC conditions but had no scope neither distometer. A few years later, I got them, and discovered how bad the linearity of my cheerish home made electronics was.
To me, the correlation between harmonic distorsion and sound goodness is quite established : a very low distorsion is less pleasing than a higher one. Just check that with a tape recorder : quite often, a least for a little while, the recording stuff sounds better than the CD it was made from.
Hi Hugh Dean,
I apologize in advance for some following comments which may appear unkind.
HUGH DEAN
"I'm not too concerned about conventional distortion figures, except, of course, for marketing purposes."
I paraphrase again :
I'm not too concerned about good sounding claims, except, of course, for marketing purposes.
Today, claims of good sound seem to have much more influence on marketing than numbers which are ununderstandabbe by so many people. This is amply proven by the said sound of cables, one of most juicy affair of the whole hifi business.
HUGH DEAN
"However, the spectrum of this distortion is pivotal"
Starting with an ultra-conventionnal architecture(Self's) it appears to be very easy to obtain a specific spectrum by adding some controlled linearities either before the input or inside the amplifier. It must not be forgotten that this spectrum is dependant of the DC conditions of all the operating points. Is it or is it not nice that this spectrum is conditionnaly dependant ?
I consider the importance of harmonic spectrum in the sound of power amplifiers as being one of the less rigorously and scientifically studied (for example : Cheever's thesis) ever seen in the audio field.
PERANDERS
'Don't forget what the customer target is.'
The customer is the target, isn't it ?
I am quite sure that AKSA products are good reliable products which satisfy most of its customers. However I feel uneasy with the reason why an AKSA amp should be much better sounding than other amps.
I think some features in the design of amps are often overlooked : very high DC stability even when DC feedback or servo is not connected ; AC stability and phase margin at all frequencies ; current linearity of the outpout stage ; HF immunity are amongst the most important features a for not-wandering distorsion with not wandering harmonic components. It may be the key for a very neutral amplifier, not for the most subjectively pleasing sound because of the capricious nature of human physiology and psychology.
~~~~~ Forr
§§§
"It's sure great to find someone who can compare amplifiers by just
reading schematics."
I can say a lot from the simple view of schematics and tell that there
is no reason why the AKSA amplifier should sound much better than my Sansui amplifier which basically has the same structure. I have perfectly lived with my Sansui but I think, and I am perfectly conscious, that if I may have prefered it for a while, it's due to the fact that more distorsion is often more pleasant than less distorsion, and not because of some unmesurable mysterious features.
HIFRYER
"It's sure great to find someone who can compare amplifiers by just reading schematics. As distortion measurements a la current mirrors etc must lead to sonic Nirvana - all amplifers that need to be designed have already been designed!"
I can only paraphrase :
If the rather standard, a bit old fashionned, architecture of the AKSA
amp must lead to sonic Nirvana, all the amplifiers that need to be designed have already been designed!
Note that op-amps in which the signal has to go through at the recording stage have more ressemblance to power amps with constant current sources and current mirror than any other amp architecture. Is the poor signal is so much affected ?
STILL4GIVEN
"I was trying to keep the thread on topic because I am interested in these amps."
The title of the thread is "AKSA 55, 100 - Listening impressions". I feel as important to concentrate on the second part of the title than on the first.
A curious fact among subjectivist engineers is that they reject the correlation between harmonic distorsion measurements andlistening impressions, but none of them could imagine to setup an amplifier without a scope (which show unlinearities) and a distometer. My own experience in this domain is significative : when I was much younger, I built a preamp and an amp which sound lovely. I just had a voltmeter to check DC conditions but had no scope neither distometer. A few years later, I got them, and discovered how bad the linearity of my cheerish home made electronics was.
To me, the correlation between harmonic distorsion and sound goodness is quite established : a very low distorsion is less pleasing than a higher one. Just check that with a tape recorder : quite often, a least for a little while, the recording stuff sounds better than the CD it was made from.
Hi Hugh Dean,
I apologize in advance for some following comments which may appear unkind.
HUGH DEAN
"I'm not too concerned about conventional distortion figures, except, of course, for marketing purposes."
I paraphrase again :
I'm not too concerned about good sounding claims, except, of course, for marketing purposes.
Today, claims of good sound seem to have much more influence on marketing than numbers which are ununderstandabbe by so many people. This is amply proven by the said sound of cables, one of most juicy affair of the whole hifi business.
HUGH DEAN
"However, the spectrum of this distortion is pivotal"
Starting with an ultra-conventionnal architecture(Self's) it appears to be very easy to obtain a specific spectrum by adding some controlled linearities either before the input or inside the amplifier. It must not be forgotten that this spectrum is dependant of the DC conditions of all the operating points. Is it or is it not nice that this spectrum is conditionnaly dependant ?
I consider the importance of harmonic spectrum in the sound of power amplifiers as being one of the less rigorously and scientifically studied (for example : Cheever's thesis) ever seen in the audio field.
PERANDERS
'Don't forget what the customer target is.'
The customer is the target, isn't it ?
I am quite sure that AKSA products are good reliable products which satisfy most of its customers. However I feel uneasy with the reason why an AKSA amp should be much better sounding than other amps.
I think some features in the design of amps are often overlooked : very high DC stability even when DC feedback or servo is not connected ; AC stability and phase margin at all frequencies ; current linearity of the outpout stage ; HF immunity are amongst the most important features a for not-wandering distorsion with not wandering harmonic components. It may be the key for a very neutral amplifier, not for the most subjectively pleasing sound because of the capricious nature of human physiology and psychology.
~~~~~ Forr
§§§
classd4sure said:
Hi Chris,
I'm glad you were able to figure out the definition alibistic. It still makes little sense to me.
I suppose that discussing the inner workings of an amp design, coupled with a listening impression, in a thread asking for folk's impressions would be a good thing. Doing it without even listening to the amp in question is not much more than trolling, IMO.
As far as my signature, I see all kinds of little sayings used there. The one I used is a quote that I read once and liked very much. It is more a reminder to myself to guard how I talk and act around people. I'm sorry if you found it offensive.
Blessings, Terry
Re: Outstanding performance, clear sound, superior soundstage, cristal clear trebles
You've hit it on the head there with the pre amp. I tried several pre amps and it was not until the GK-1 went in that the AKSA 55N+ really showed it's stuff. I have a friend, barfind, who is a member of this forum and he stated he first heard the true characteristics of the AKSA 55N+ after the GK-1 went in. Prior to that, it's attributes were masked by the pre amps I was using.
You keeping us entertained Carlos?
sparkle said:
You've hit it on the head there with the pre amp. I tried several pre amps and it was not until the GK-1 went in that the AKSA 55N+ really showed it's stuff. I have a friend, barfind, who is a member of this forum and he stated he first heard the true characteristics of the AKSA 55N+ after the GK-1 went in. Prior to that, it's attributes were masked by the pre amps I was using.
destroyer X said:
You keeping us entertained Carlos?
You have actually different kinds of customers: Poor students <--> Money is of no object, it have to cost.... and AKSA is not the top - of - line price doesn't matter.forr said:
I have asked why Hugh doesn't make a highquality pcb's instead of his single side ones. The reason was cost but I'm pretty sure that a Nirvana ++ boards are possible to sell. 2-5 dollar more!
Doublesided
Nice colour, blue, black, purple, red etc
Nice colour of the silkprint
Goldplated pads, very nice
) etc etc.
Personally I think only standard green doublesided board will be a sufficient upgrade.
The major difference between the singlesided and a doublesided board is that the solder joints will be stronger if the the holes are plated. There are technical differences and this has nothing to do with qualtity.
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