A tight fit. But not so much as to stress the basket. This shunts vibrational energy away to the other panels and away from the baffle. paper or "slivers" can be used as shims if it is a little short.
The only issues i've had is when i inadvertantly squish the wiring in between magnet & brace.
dave
If you are listning to an analog source, then you probably need some BSC unless you put the drivers in the wide side of a large flat cab or use a suprabaffle.
That is best implemented with a simple little circuit before the main amp. That way you won't get as much distortion, and the circuit will be cheaper and smaller. If you are so lucky to have a good analog EQ you can use that too of course.
Digital sound on the other hand is best BSC compensated with a digital EQ. Either a dedicated, or the build-in one in for example iTunes. Just remember to do negative EQing to get the best result.
As already pointed out elsewhere, good finish is essential for WAF (and for you too hopefully). Painting can be a real timesink of you want to get a result even approaching the quality of manufactured cabs. That's why I suggested fabric. Use spray-on glue in a layer just thick enough to hold the fabric firmly.
That is best implemented with a simple little circuit before the main amp. That way you won't get as much distortion, and the circuit will be cheaper and smaller. If you are so lucky to have a good analog EQ you can use that too of course.
Digital sound on the other hand is best BSC compensated with a digital EQ. Either a dedicated, or the build-in one in for example iTunes. Just remember to do negative EQing to get the best result.
As already pointed out elsewhere, good finish is essential for WAF (and for you too hopefully). Painting can be a real timesink of you want to get a result even approaching the quality of manufactured cabs. That's why I suggested fabric. Use spray-on glue in a layer just thick enough to hold the fabric firmly.
I don't have to worry about WAF, more MAF (mother approval factor), but I believe that my recently finished speakers have got to score pretty well on the WAF-meter. Upholstering them looks great and I imagine that the batting thats squeezed against the MDF is helping with upper end enclosure harmonics.
If you used a color scheme that blended with the room I bet you could make them disappear, regardless of size
More pics
If you used a color scheme that blended with the room I bet you could make them disappear, regardless of size
More pics
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Well, since the title of this thread indicates that WAF is crucial, I'll reiterate my suggestion for jjl to spend a few minutes with the W reviewing some of the photos posted on various builders' galleries. No matter how well you think you know your spouse, there's no end of surprises to what they might find acceptable.
no, that's not code
If she appreciates music enough to actually sit down for some active listening, or attend live concerts, your battle's half won - the quality of reproduction could well trump the visual appearance.
My own wife couldn't give a fig about the "sound" - after some pretty ugly & bigazz speakers early on, after 40yrs as long as they don't call attention to themselves and are decently finished, she's happy.
happy's good for everyone
Once you've got an idea as to what form factor will work, there'll be no dearth of suggestions for enclosure styles & specific make/models of drivers - since the question is posted in the Full Range forum, let's assume that'll be the general phyla - class, order, etc will evolve from the discussion.
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no, that's not code
If she appreciates music enough to actually sit down for some active listening, or attend live concerts, your battle's half won - the quality of reproduction could well trump the visual appearance.
My own wife couldn't give a fig about the "sound" - after some pretty ugly & bigazz speakers early on, after 40yrs as long as they don't call attention to themselves and are decently finished, she's happy.
happy's good for everyone
Once you've got an idea as to what form factor will work, there'll be no dearth of suggestions for enclosure styles & specific make/models of drivers - since the question is posted in the Full Range forum, let's assume that'll be the general phyla - class, order, etc will evolve from the discussion.
.
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Don't have much to add to what was already said, but I can relay my recent WAF experience with building the Frugel-Horns Mk3. I had shown her pictures of some really nice builds (there is a thread out there that has lots of them) and she said those look 'okay'. I had to point out that they are only 33ish inches tall.
Once I had built them, she actually said 'those look really cool', even though (or because?) my finishing skills are way behind those of some of the wood artists out there.
It helps that they sound fantastic, unless you try to throw some big orchestra piece at them. But listening to some Pat Metheny and Zakir Hussain gave me the goose bumps.
My primary goals were: I wanted to try a proven design for a horn of reasonable dimensions with a sensitive full range driver of manageable cost that would work well with my Tubelab SSE tube amp and mostly acoustic [live] music. I did a lot of reading here, asked some questions and after a lot of good help&advice decided to go down the Mk3/Fostex 126eN (enabled by planet10) route. I couldn't be happier with the outcome of my first speaker build since I was 16.
Good luck, it's tough given that 'good sound' is such a subjective thing... ;-)
Once I had built them, she actually said 'those look really cool', even though (or because?) my finishing skills are way behind those of some of the wood artists out there.
It helps that they sound fantastic, unless you try to throw some big orchestra piece at them. But listening to some Pat Metheny and Zakir Hussain gave me the goose bumps.
My primary goals were: I wanted to try a proven design for a horn of reasonable dimensions with a sensitive full range driver of manageable cost that would work well with my Tubelab SSE tube amp and mostly acoustic [live] music. I did a lot of reading here, asked some questions and after a lot of good help&advice decided to go down the Mk3/Fostex 126eN (enabled by planet10) route. I couldn't be happier with the outcome of my first speaker build since I was 16.
Good luck, it's tough given that 'good sound' is such a subjective thing... ;-)
Initially I ignored the Frugel horns because I did not like the lumpy bit on the top. It looks unbalanced to me. However, I have now seen the FH Mk3 and these look much better.
Having spent the last couple of hours trying to understand the FH monster thread, I will try these cabinets with the Alpair 7 drivers.
My main concern is that they are going in a largish room (12' x 20') with 12' ceiling height.
If I am better off with larger drivers and another system to suit this room all suggestions are welcome. Thanks
Jeremy.
Having spent the last couple of hours trying to understand the FH monster thread, I will try these cabinets with the Alpair 7 drivers.
My main concern is that they are going in a largish room (12' x 20') with 12' ceiling height.
If I am better off with larger drivers and another system to suit this room all suggestions are welcome. Thanks
Jeremy.
Bevels do add a lot to the WAF according to my wife. Also, if you are going to expose the driver use one that looks good. Rebated driver cutouts are a must. Speakers last a long time, we might as well make them look good.
This is Dave's cool design for the Alpair 10.2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is Dave's cool design for the Alpair 10.2
couldn't agree more Bob
two words to add:
buried magnets
cost more than the plastic peg / sockets & just as fiddly to install, but never break, and are so damned elegant
yes, thanks again D
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Jeremy - regarding woofer/subwoofers with FH3, the answer is probably - "that depends" - on several factors
- which wideband driver?
- room size / placement vis a vis corners?
- music only or for HT as well ?
Generally speaking, I'd recommend multiples of smaller ( 6-8") woofers, and as a lot of folks are finding when using FR drivers in multi-channel HT systems with the accompanying bass management, full XO as high as 120-160Hz will reduce the excursion limits often found in the "weight class" of drivers for which the FH3 was intended. The net result is substantial improvement in attainable SP levels, dynamic headroom, and overall reduction of distortion.
It's been my personal experience that larger (i.e. 12-15" etc) or multi-driver / passive radiator equipped subs may be great for extreme LF sound effects, but don't have quite the musicality to seamlessly blend with drivers such as the Mark Audio Alpair7.3 or Fostex FE126En which are among the drivers of choice for the FH3, and frequently have trouble "disappearing".
- which wideband driver?
- room size / placement vis a vis corners?
- music only or for HT as well ?
Generally speaking, I'd recommend multiples of smaller ( 6-8") woofers, and as a lot of folks are finding when using FR drivers in multi-channel HT systems with the accompanying bass management, full XO as high as 120-160Hz will reduce the excursion limits often found in the "weight class" of drivers for which the FH3 was intended. The net result is substantial improvement in attainable SP levels, dynamic headroom, and overall reduction of distortion.
It's been my personal experience that larger (i.e. 12-15" etc) or multi-driver / passive radiator equipped subs may be great for extreme LF sound effects, but don't have quite the musicality to seamlessly blend with drivers such as the Mark Audio Alpair7.3 or Fostex FE126En which are among the drivers of choice for the FH3, and frequently have trouble "disappearing".
To obtain WAF before building is a real problem, as you never really know what the objection is. It may be colour, size, finish, or something really simple. I've recently completed a pluto type lookalike which has met with high approval, but the original comment was "no way". The reason turned to be the various bumps and changes of shape/thickness of the original design. Smooth all these out to get a clean shape and with bright colours all was well.
But involving "her indoors" (shows my age) from the start gets you a lot more tolerance, particularly when you get round (as you will) to model 5, 6. or 96.
One possible approach is to insert into a photo of your room, a photo of the proposed design in the proposed location, to scale of course. This gives her a much better idea of scale, shape and colour, on which to comment.
Note that a sub can be disguised in many ways, coffee table, storage cabinet, etc as the cone does not have to be seen. Incidentally my wife prefers my designs with no grill, as generally they are shiny aluminum cones, set in a black surround, and highlight the coloured cabinets.
But involving "her indoors" (shows my age) from the start gets you a lot more tolerance, particularly when you get round (as you will) to model 5, 6. or 96.
One possible approach is to insert into a photo of your room, a photo of the proposed design in the proposed location, to scale of course. This gives her a much better idea of scale, shape and colour, on which to comment.
Note that a sub can be disguised in many ways, coffee table, storage cabinet, etc as the cone does not have to be seen. Incidentally my wife prefers my designs with no grill, as generally they are shiny aluminum cones, set in a black surround, and highlight the coloured cabinets.
Not even close on WAF. Too tall, red stripe, and padded upholstery.
I don't have to worry about WAF, more MAF (mother approval factor), but I believe that my recently finished speakers have got to score pretty well on the WAF-meter. Upholstering them looks great and I imagine that the batting thats squeezed against the MDF is helping with upper end enclosure harmonics.
If you used a color scheme that blended with the room I bet you could make them disappear, regardless of size
More pics
Chrisb,
My main interest is for music listening, but I have no doubt the system will be hooked up to the HT as well. If 6-8" woofers will do the job better, then I am happy enough to have a couple of them in the room. The room is largish, 13'x22' roughly and has tall 12' ceilings.
I have ordered the MA Alpair 7 (gold) drivers already. Should I stay will the MA drivers for the woofers for more consistency.
I am not sure if my HT receiver allows me to alter the crossover point and I am not certain at what frequency it happens by default. I can certainly do that from my regular amp (Old Luxman) by just adding an XO.
Jeremy
My main interest is for music listening, but I have no doubt the system will be hooked up to the HT as well. If 6-8" woofers will do the job better, then I am happy enough to have a couple of them in the room. The room is largish, 13'x22' roughly and has tall 12' ceilings.
I have ordered the MA Alpair 7 (gold) drivers already. Should I stay will the MA drivers for the woofers for more consistency.
I am not sure if my HT receiver allows me to alter the crossover point and I am not certain at what frequency it happens by default. I can certainly do that from my regular amp (Old Luxman) by just adding an XO.
Jeremy
Sadly I have to tread very carefully here with the WAF as I stopped her from buying a "Bose" system for $5000. She really liked the tiny little speakers and if I fill up the room with a large system she will just go and get the Bose system because it suits the decor better. Been there done that before, do not wish to repeat situation.
Jeremy
Jeremy
I usually have to end up building prototypes. Cardboard, hardboard, particleboard or any other kind of board painted black. More work but avoids surprises. Re MA woofers - woof6 is nice but no longer in production so don't know if you can find any. CSS el166 is identical and still available but there's the shipping cost. Not really necessary to be MA imo as I don't think woof6 was specifically designed to work with alpair7 anyway.
I believe it goes further then that, wern't bookshelf speakers pretty much invented to keep women happy? And men used to think women found big techie looking Hi-fi sexy, then they capitulated when they learned the truth.
You need to scratch a line in the sand brother.
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