BassAwdyO said:
Right there, cost. I guarantee those spiders would cost a hell of a lot more than the traditional cloth spider they use now, especially when you factor in the cost to design and implement into production. I know of one of other sub that uses a similar approach and its over a grand if not quite a bit more, and the singular thing that seperates it from most other designs is the spider.
It would be nice if they could implement a spider like that well, but I don't think they could justify the cost/benefit when compared to the performance of the Tumult now.
Brahma Box
I have a concept HP-1000 (1500 watts) and a 12" Brahma on order, i want to build a box tuned to 30 hz. I wanted some suggestions, and have found a RE box for the XXX that i like. check it out at
http://www.reaudio.com/flash_index.html
click on tech at the bottom, then enclosures, then single.
Anything that you guys know would help.
I have a concept HP-1000 (1500 watts) and a 12" Brahma on order, i want to build a box tuned to 30 hz. I wanted some suggestions, and have found a RE box for the XXX that i like. check it out at
http://www.reaudio.com/flash_index.html
click on tech at the bottom, then enclosures, then single.
Anything that you guys know would help.
@BassAwdyO:
Yes the Sadharas do have felt pads.
I noticed the noise when running in them in free air.
But I fact more than +/-20mm will not be my standard use
case. I think they will satisfy my demands.
But it will still take one year to get my sadhara cubes ready.
Should become an active system with linkwitz transform,
SMPS and class D amp.... still a lot of work....
Size of the cube will be 40cm x 40cm x 35cm. At least
the wood work is mostly done. Sorry no pics, my digi cam is broken.
Yes the Sadharas do have felt pads.
I noticed the noise when running in them in free air.
But I fact more than +/-20mm will not be my standard use
case. I think they will satisfy my demands.
But it will still take one year to get my sadhara cubes ready.
Should become an active system with linkwitz transform,
SMPS and class D amp.... still a lot of work....
Size of the cube will be 40cm x 40cm x 35cm. At least
the wood work is mostly done. Sorry no pics, my digi cam is broken.
DonoMan said:
Best not to venture into areas you lack experience my friend. In basic terms: You shouldn't use an amp rated at less than the driver lest you overdrive the amp to clipping which will indeed cause havoc with your coils. Less in a woofer than tweeter but still legitimate. Please don't promote this kind of "knowledge" to the unwary.
Quote:
"You know what they say about underpowering a sub too. Its almost entirely untrue*, but just ask any car stereo retailer and you should hear that underpowering a speaker can EASILY blow it. To which I say BS, but hey, I guess they can trick most everyone else into spending an extra couple bones for a bigger amp."
BassAwdyO,
I'm a little surprised by this statement from you.
Cal
On the question of amps blowing speakers, I have a bit to add. The ratings on an amp are in my experience always incorrect. I own a 50W rotel power amp, when it is turned up to the point where clipping becomes audibly aparent the power output on average is about 55W (I dont remember the speaker impeadance). However the peak instantaneous power is in excess or 225W. So with this amp a 100W speaker could be easily blown. On the other hand I once owned a kenwood 100w amp, its peak power output was about 125W.
Cal, what part of that statement suprised you? If you are talking about that quote from my earlier post I was merely trying to say that just about any car audio retailer will make it seem like a deadly sin to have less amplifier power than the manufactures rating for the speaker(in peak power of course). But its obvious why they tell people this. The average consumer simply does not know better, and the salesman is always out to make more money.
What I have found in my experience with car audio subwoofers is that most of them are over rated in power anyhow. Thermal power handling is typically not too far from the truth, but without sufficient linear excursion the thermal limited power region starts at higher frequency and the driver can easily reach xmax or bottom out at lower frequencys causing physical damage other than coil meltdown.
What I have found in my experience with car audio subwoofers is that most of them are over rated in power anyhow. Thermal power handling is typically not too far from the truth, but without sufficient linear excursion the thermal limited power region starts at higher frequency and the driver can easily reach xmax or bottom out at lower frequencys causing physical damage other than coil meltdown.
I know that this was posted a few months ago, but I wanted to answer it:
"I dont know why they didnt either
A. weave the tinsel leads into the spider
or
B. Use some sort of spider similar to parthenon's"
A. Dan has mentioned before that he does not like that design because he feels it greatly reduces the life of the spider, and effects it's performance.
B. The spider used on the Parthenon was a prototype and introduction to that type of spider. I'm sure you will see it used on more stuff in the future.
And on the topic of amplifier clipping; the only way to blow a subwoofer thermally is by overpowering it. It isn't distortion from the clipped signal that causes the sub to blow, but the excess power. You could run a sub all day with a fully clipped signal as long as you don't exceed it's thermal power handling. If it helps, here's a video of me clipping the signal going to one of our Brahma's: http://www.woofervids.com/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=34 I can assure you that the sub was not damaged in any way from the clipped signal.
Steven Kephart
Adire Audio
"I dont know why they didnt either
A. weave the tinsel leads into the spider
or
B. Use some sort of spider similar to parthenon's"
A. Dan has mentioned before that he does not like that design because he feels it greatly reduces the life of the spider, and effects it's performance.
B. The spider used on the Parthenon was a prototype and introduction to that type of spider. I'm sure you will see it used on more stuff in the future.
And on the topic of amplifier clipping; the only way to blow a subwoofer thermally is by overpowering it. It isn't distortion from the clipped signal that causes the sub to blow, but the excess power. You could run a sub all day with a fully clipped signal as long as you don't exceed it's thermal power handling. If it helps, here's a video of me clipping the signal going to one of our Brahma's: http://www.woofervids.com/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=34 I can assure you that the sub was not damaged in any way from the clipped signal.
Steven Kephart
Adire Audio
Adire Brahma would be a compeditor for the w7 SPL and SQ wise.
though the w7 would win in SPL but the Brahma MK I and MK II would both give it a good run.
so now Adire is signing over to dealers who arent extremely knowledgeable of their product....adire has just been disowned by me. no offence on the original posters part.
for the idiots who said "put a parthenon in a demo car"
please, shut your mouths. the parthenon isnt a driver that is in constant production. actually, the parthenon is the motor, not the whole driver. there are few baskets capeable of allowing 175mm P2P led alone surrounds or cones capebale of handling that force. and a free air driver inside a vehicle will make for some nasty responces. but either way the entire driver will end up costing $8,000+.
I am really not likeing the direction Adire is going. Granted they are moving to mainstreab but the DW crew shouldnt be signing authorized dealerwhips like everyother mainstream company. I can understand the price gauges because they are only MSRP. but as soon as all of these crappy dealers get wind of Adires perfomrance Adire will be just as over priced as JL. Either way i am sticking to RE and Ascendant now. I know RE will move in the direction of adire soon, but maybe dave will be alittle more smart about it. It will be a while before Ascendant will no longer be avalable direct.
though the w7 would win in SPL but the Brahma MK I and MK II would both give it a good run.
so now Adire is signing over to dealers who arent extremely knowledgeable of their product....adire has just been disowned by me. no offence on the original posters part.
for the idiots who said "put a parthenon in a demo car"
please, shut your mouths. the parthenon isnt a driver that is in constant production. actually, the parthenon is the motor, not the whole driver. there are few baskets capeable of allowing 175mm P2P led alone surrounds or cones capebale of handling that force. and a free air driver inside a vehicle will make for some nasty responces. but either way the entire driver will end up costing $8,000+.
I am really not likeing the direction Adire is going. Granted they are moving to mainstreab but the DW crew shouldnt be signing authorized dealerwhips like everyother mainstream company. I can understand the price gauges because they are only MSRP. but as soon as all of these crappy dealers get wind of Adires perfomrance Adire will be just as over priced as JL. Either way i am sticking to RE and Ascendant now. I know RE will move in the direction of adire soon, but maybe dave will be alittle more smart about it. It will be a while before Ascendant will no longer be avalable direct.
Driving an 'underpowered' amplifier into hard clipping will not usually harm a woofer unless:
1) the rough doubling in power over the rms rating exceeds the woofer's thermal capability.
2) the amplifier in question has the nasty habit of developing a significant dc offset when overdriven.
These potential woofer failure modes also apply, of course, to non-'underpowered' amplifiers.
1) the rough doubling in power over the rms rating exceeds the woofer's thermal capability.
2) the amplifier in question has the nasty habit of developing a significant dc offset when overdriven.
These potential woofer failure modes also apply, of course, to non-'underpowered' amplifiers.
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