Yes I have....all stock servo tube only....found them seem to have a good 2-3db more output than the MK121-2a....to my ears... the "Medallion" Modification -C...was a little better..
Ear-sound wise ...tubes little dark sounding....but to day if I had a pr of the servos...I would pull the 5k panels bias feed off the amps....make one could be Adjustable ..........I know that would make a as big a diff in sound as any mod ever done...today
But sound wise in the end...I have owned an Diyed a lot of tube amps...it like using a tube amp with a tube rectifier Vs SS diodes.....tube rectifier sound diff...but not better...
it a richer tube sound for sure...but comes with all the same tube type biases ....Old-tubes-heat-parts-an you cant run any diff amps...just the DD...less you have the interfaces also....interfaces ..there just ezer right...
But like all things in Audio would.... if you don't go-own....you never know..
life is just a min..go for it..if you can...also these servo well work with any ESLs....
All just one mans o-pine...
Ear-sound wise ...tubes little dark sounding....but to day if I had a pr of the servos...I would pull the 5k panels bias feed off the amps....make one could be Adjustable ..........I know that would make a as big a diff in sound as any mod ever done...today
But sound wise in the end...I have owned an Diyed a lot of tube amps...it like using a tube amp with a tube rectifier Vs SS diodes.....tube rectifier sound diff...but not better...
it a richer tube sound for sure...but comes with all the same tube type biases ....Old-tubes-heat-parts-an you cant run any diff amps...just the DD...less you have the interfaces also....interfaces ..there just ezer right...
But like all things in Audio would.... if you don't go-own....you never know..
life is just a min..go for it..if you can...also these servo well work with any ESLs....
All just one mans o-pine...
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"Yes I have....all stock servo tube only....found them seem to have a good 2-3db more output than the MK121-2a....to my ears... "
What could this possibly mean? Comparing a servo tube amp to an upverting transformer -- fed by what amp? -- and finding a loudness difference? It is beyond even apples and oranges...more like apples and moon stones.
What could this possibly mean? Comparing a servo tube amp to an upverting transformer -- fed by what amp? -- and finding a loudness difference? It is beyond even apples and oranges...more like apples and moon stones.
Yes I noticed that. It is a shame when a large enthusiast site turns into something no different than hooligans scribbling rubbish on a urinal wall. Makes it difficult for the rest of us who want to advance the art, make it interesting.
I was going to write about how I am using a very interesting amp, not at all meant as an electrostat servo, to drive a pair of Martin-Logan CLSs directly...but why bother, it will be more urinal fodder.
No disrespect intended, and I'm sure that he provides lots of good information in his posts, but I don't even bother to read anything that tyu writes as I find reading it to be a painful and frustrating process. There is nothing like proper complete sentences and good grammar to aid comprehension in these technical subjects. I weep for the English language in this modern digital age.
Take care,
Doug
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Please please do post about your amplifier, I am very interested in what you are doing!
Take care,
Doug
OK, you twisted my arm. Here is a Berning ZH230 amp driving the CLSs. This is a tube amp that uses a switching, solid state "output transformer" to drive normal, dynamic speaker loads. In this application, I bypassed the output stage and connected the tube output to the electrostats via capacitors. The bias is provided by a tiny EMCO unit, E Series - EMCO High Voltage, currently housed in the cigar box sitting above the amp. Despite the amp's relatively low 2 X 75W output, there is no problem filling my 3000SF living room, assisted by a SONOS sub.
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Did you originally run both the amplifier and speakers in stock configuration, and so have a basis for comparison with the new setup? I imagine that both sound quality and volume levels would be substantially improved.
Take care,
Doug
I have. In fact the set up is such that I can switch from direct drive to the CLSs' original transformer units in less than one minute. Probably because of equalization differences, it is hard for me to comment how they differ. May be if one day I get a bunch of audiophiles together, there may be better consensus. But driven directly from this amp (which, in stereo, is a quarter of just ONE Acoustat amp in size) the sound is so superb, there is little reason to go back to the original, transformered setup (incidentally, I do have original Acoustat amps, which I had beefed up with large capacitors. I do not believe those are anywhere nearly as good).
I have a question: see the wiring on the attached photo. That is a high voltage cable from a 70s Italian TV. I wonder if I can find any lengths of that? It would make connecting the Berning amp to the CLSs much easier. Currently I have loose, individual teflon fireproof wires. It is messy. This wire would keep all leads neatly separated.
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That sounds very nice, I wish that I could hear it!
I have never seen high voltage wire like that, a very interesting concept. There must be some type of plastic clips available to clamp your teflon wires in a similar manner every few inches to achieve the same thing.
Take care,
Doug
Those are some mighty strange articles you are quoting, and underscore that not everything you read on the internet should be taken as gospel (yes, including what I say, too!). These kind of "conclusions" really irk me, when someone takes an isolated experience and translates it into fact. And I say that without knowing who wrote the article or what the circumstances are (and honestly, I have no interest in reading the article).
Why do you suppose SS amps would exhibit irregular frequency response with ESL's, the implication being in comparison to tube amps? Tube amps generally have higher output impedance that varies much more with frequency than a typical SS amp. Therefore, tube amps will typically modify any speaker's "natural" frequency response much more than a typical SS amp. Most commonly, the impression of "more bass" is actually caused by high amplifier output impedance which results in an under-damped system. (Think of woofers flopping around uncontrollably, and therefore producing "more bass".)
The engineer in me thinks this is less than ideal, but as a music-listener I would never suggest that that is "wrong". Listening to music is a highly personal endeavor and very much subject to your individual taste. So if one amp versus another, driving your speaker, has more top end, or more bass, or more whatever, then you should use that combination and be happy. Just be careful not to draw sweeping conclusions that go beyond a particular amplifier in combination with a particular speaker.
Ok, stepping off soapbox now. I feel better.
Hello again sir. I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction in finding a full set of 6HB5 for my Acoustat OTLs. At the moment they are operating fine but I know I will inevitably need them. I was thinking to acquire a set for back up.
There are multiples available on the net, however my question is do they need to be matched? By pairs/quads?
ESL amps
There is something inherently silly about using an ESL with a tube amp...you are taking a high impedance device, using a transformer to convert its output to a lower impedance only to feed that signal into yet another transformer to increase the voltage (and the impedance) to a level that can drive an electrostatic panel! A SS amp bypasses the first transformer and probably feeds the second in a more constant voltage manner.
Driving the ESL from tubes directly, with no transformers, of course probably makes the most sense in the current environment...until transistors capable of running in the 5-8kV environment become more readily available that is.
There is something inherently silly about using an ESL with a tube amp...you are taking a high impedance device, using a transformer to convert its output to a lower impedance only to feed that signal into yet another transformer to increase the voltage (and the impedance) to a level that can drive an electrostatic panel! A SS amp bypasses the first transformer and probably feeds the second in a more constant voltage manner.
Driving the ESL from tubes directly, with no transformers, of course probably makes the most sense in the current environment...until transistors capable of running in the 5-8kV environment become more readily available that is.
New member here. Ive always been a lover of planar speakers. I finally purchased my first pair of Acoustats today (2+2). I have been looking for a Berning amp to drive them directly and I might have an opportunity to get an EA-230. My question is, would this amp drive those speaker adequately or at all? Thanks!
AcoustatAnswerMan,
I am working with a friend with a pair of 3s, and my question is twofold.
1. We are having an issue in the mid-range, which acts like a phasing problem. The only time you have a center stage is when one of them is out of phase with the other. Even then it is not as good as I have had with other 3s. Here is the question, looking at the wiring from the panels which is positive and negative. I get the feeling they may have been serviced at some point and not reassembled correctly. Like 1 or 2 of the panels is flipped.
2. What changes did the medallion upgrade make in the sound of the speakers? Did it effect the low, mid, high or all?
Thanks
I am working with a friend with a pair of 3s, and my question is twofold.
1. We are having an issue in the mid-range, which acts like a phasing problem. The only time you have a center stage is when one of them is out of phase with the other. Even then it is not as good as I have had with other 3s. Here is the question, looking at the wiring from the panels which is positive and negative. I get the feeling they may have been serviced at some point and not reassembled correctly. Like 1 or 2 of the panels is flipped.
2. What changes did the medallion upgrade make in the sound of the speakers? Did it effect the low, mid, high or all?
Thanks
It does sound like a phase reversal has been introduced somehow. Be sure that all of the panel wires coming from the rear stator are connected to the blue terminal of the interface, and that all the wires from the front stators are connected to the white terminal of the interface. This may involve unbundling the wires to accurately follow each one. A felt-tip marker will be handy for color-coding the wires once you have traced each one. If my description of this procedure is not clear, just ask for clarification.
I'll be honest and say that I have never compared a before-and-after Medallion upgrade. That program was just being introduced when I joined the company, so I never got a good feel for the "regular" transformers. However, the mod was supposed to reduce distortion and introduce improvement all across the audio band, especially when combined with later the "C-Mod". Everyone who got their speakers upgraded seemed to be happy with the money spent. BTW, the C-Mod can be performed on the old transformers too. It's a cheap and easy mod using commonly available parts. Not so for the Medallion upgrade, which will be very expensive IF you can find the transformers. You'd likely spend far more than you paid for those speakers.
Well the verdict is in. I'm driving the Monitor 3 direct to my OppoBDP95, the Model 3 with a pair of LSR&D Superamp monos from my Meridian 501 pre to the Oppo. So equalization is a matter of attenuation. This is more than a novelty. Dynamics are incredible. Depth perspective is out of sight. It isn't just a little bit better. If it wasn't for the felt backing, this probably wouldn't work.
