Good Afternoon,
unfortunately due to pretty new experience with PA systems i burned my Th0mann Achat 118 with only about 20hours of playtime.
Now i´m searching a new chassis for the Achat ant wanted to ask u guys if you have a Chassis that you would put in the Achat instead of the original, or would you use the original?
https://www.thomannmusic.com/the_box_speaker_185008a.htm | So that's the original Chassis that is build into the Achat on delivery.
Now i´m tinkering if i should the original chassis from above or something like this: https://www.thomannmusic.com/turbosound_ts_18sw700_8a.htm
Or do you have any other chassis that you would choose?
I wouldn´t put any chassis that has too much power because the old one died due to overheating (ok, he overheated because a song with about 28hz was played which didn't him do quit well)
Edit: My idea of the other chassis is also to have some more sounds on the bottom. Not for songs with 28hz but with the original chassis the Achat loos it´s power quick if something is lower than 38-40hz....it would be enough to get to 35...thats my idea.
Thanks in advance.
Givou
unfortunately due to pretty new experience with PA systems i burned my Th0mann Achat 118 with only about 20hours of playtime.
Now i´m searching a new chassis for the Achat ant wanted to ask u guys if you have a Chassis that you would put in the Achat instead of the original, or would you use the original?
https://www.thomannmusic.com/the_box_speaker_185008a.htm | So that's the original Chassis that is build into the Achat on delivery.
Now i´m tinkering if i should the original chassis from above or something like this: https://www.thomannmusic.com/turbosound_ts_18sw700_8a.htm
Or do you have any other chassis that you would choose?
I wouldn´t put any chassis that has too much power because the old one died due to overheating (ok, he overheated because a song with about 28hz was played which didn't him do quit well)
Edit: My idea of the other chassis is also to have some more sounds on the bottom. Not for songs with 28hz but with the original chassis the Achat loos it´s power quick if something is lower than 38-40hz....it would be enough to get to 35...thats my idea.
Thanks in advance.
Givou
Replace the driver with the original, sell the box, and look for a different model subwoofer(s) capable of reaching lower.
Or replace the driver, buy an additional Achat 118 for more output, and accept the compromise in low end extension.
High-pass filters and limiters will help prevent this in the future. Although it can be a challenge to find out exactly where to set them.
Or replace the driver, buy an additional Achat 118 for more output, and accept the compromise in low end extension.
High-pass filters and limiters will help prevent this in the future. Although it can be a challenge to find out exactly where to set them.
What amplifier are you using?
Overheating = too much input power
The enclosure determines low frequency extension so no a different driver won't make it go lower. If that is what you want you need a different subwoofer that is tuned lower.
I´m using a Sirus Elxa 900 that can only handle 450W on 8Ohms, so i guess to much Power is excluded.
And i love the Kickbass from the Achat, so Selling isn´t really a option for me because if i put an Infra Bass or something like this i would loose that clean Bass that the Achat have in their frequency range.
But i was thinking of putting an extra Crossover for the Subs and let the Achats handle the Kickbass and get an Infrabass and let the Infra play the Sub Frequencies. Or is any other construction type better for that? Or is the idea generally stupid
?
Thanks for all your answers! Really appreciate the help.
And i love the Kickbass from the Achat, so Selling isn´t really a option for me because if i put an Infra Bass or something like this i would loose that clean Bass that the Achat have in their frequency range.
But i was thinking of putting an extra Crossover for the Subs and let the Achats handle the Kickbass and get an Infrabass and let the Infra play the Sub Frequencies. Or is any other construction type better for that? Or is the idea generally stupid
?Thanks for all your answers! Really appreciate the help.
Was your amp clipping all the time?
(Pegged on red lights)
Cause 450watts is not that much but can toast a coil if you send square waves by heavy clipping the amp.
Did you smell the coil? It smell like burn?
Did you visually inspected it? Since it is already non working you can tear off it and look at the coil.
Does it look dark brown, black?
Or with bubbles in the coil wires laquer?
That mean coil overheat/failure
The other type of failure is mechanical failure by over excursion and you will see a ripped cone most of the time.
Btw, I looked at your link and the cabinet is a horn design , I am puzzled what type of horn
Can you post some pics of the internals? With the driver removed?
This are the specs on the website
An amp of 1500 clean watts at least.
And cause you are cooking them it seems
It means that you want more bass that you have with one cab.
Horns sound better in groups of 4
So I suggest you get 4 of those with
Amps that can give you 1500 clean at 8ohms per cab
Or just an example
Use an behringer inuke3000
Bridge mode an drive 2 cabs per amp
If you are a bass nut! 😆
One cabinet is a big no 4 you
Get 3 more cabs and 6kw of amplification
Then we talk 😎
(Pegged on red lights)
Cause 450watts is not that much but can toast a coil if you send square waves by heavy clipping the amp.
Did you smell the coil? It smell like burn?
Did you visually inspected it? Since it is already non working you can tear off it and look at the coil.
Does it look dark brown, black?
Or with bubbles in the coil wires laquer?
That mean coil overheat/failure
The other type of failure is mechanical failure by over excursion and you will see a ripped cone most of the time.
Btw, I looked at your link and the cabinet is a horn design , I am puzzled what type of horn
Can you post some pics of the internals? With the driver removed?
This are the specs on the website
High Output Horn-Loaded Bass
- Ideal for touring
- 500 W RMS, 2000 W peak
- 8 Ohm
- SPL 102 dB/ (1w / 1m)
- 135 dB / peak
- Frequency range: 37- 150 Hz (-3 dB)
An amp of 1500 clean watts at least.
And cause you are cooking them it seems
It means that you want more bass that you have with one cab.
Horns sound better in groups of 4
So I suggest you get 4 of those with
Amps that can give you 1500 clean at 8ohms per cab
Or just an example
Use an behringer inuke3000
Bridge mode an drive 2 cabs per amp
If you are a bass nut! 😆
One cabinet is a big no 4 you
Get 3 more cabs and 6kw of amplification
Then we talk 😎
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No, none of the Amps, Mixers or Crossfaders were clipping. I pay close attention to all of them that its always way under clipping.
And yes, i was outdoors for a short time to film the windows shaking and suddenly the bass stopped...as i got back in the whole room stank of burned electronics.....i did not test the Speaker afterwards and also didn´t look at my AMP (I already burned a sub before but that was a small cheap china sub and i know that my AMP should say "SHORT OVERLOAD - OUTPUT LOCKED")
Directly after getting into the room i killed all amps and then smelled on the Achat and if definately burned smelled.....also it wasn´t the best experience unscrewing the 18". That thing is definitely burned. The spider, the cone and the surround is all fine and doesn´t look damaged in any kind. Also you can move the cone, the Coil doesnt seem to be stuck or hard to move, also no scratching noices.
Also, if you smell on the bottom plate at the center, where a grid is placed you can definately smell something burned.
For normally we listen to DnB and something like that...but that day i wanted to tune the Crossfader and only had a Laptop with YouTube, and that was autoplayed.....and i found that song very funny as like everything in that room resonated with it:
The second time i played it i went outdoor and as described above the Achat died.
And i don´t know, i can bridge my Amp to get i think 1400W on 8Ohm, but i already burned a Speaker with 450Watts so how would that make it better.
Edit: And for the internals, unfortunately i only have that picture:
Edit2: Afaik the 18" layed in a Housing completly closed with the Cone looking to the Top and a plate with idk 10° and a small vent at the end.
And yes, i was outdoors for a short time to film the windows shaking and suddenly the bass stopped...as i got back in the whole room stank of burned electronics.....i did not test the Speaker afterwards and also didn´t look at my AMP (I already burned a sub before but that was a small cheap china sub and i know that my AMP should say "SHORT OVERLOAD - OUTPUT LOCKED")
Directly after getting into the room i killed all amps and then smelled on the Achat and if definately burned smelled.....also it wasn´t the best experience unscrewing the 18". That thing is definitely burned. The spider, the cone and the surround is all fine and doesn´t look damaged in any kind. Also you can move the cone, the Coil doesnt seem to be stuck or hard to move, also no scratching noices.
Also, if you smell on the bottom plate at the center, where a grid is placed you can definately smell something burned.
For normally we listen to DnB and something like that...but that day i wanted to tune the Crossfader and only had a Laptop with YouTube, and that was autoplayed.....and i found that song very funny as like everything in that room resonated with it:
The second time i played it i went outdoor and as described above the Achat died.
And i don´t know, i can bridge my Amp to get i think 1400W on 8Ohm, but i already burned a Speaker with 450Watts so how would that make it better.
Edit: And for the internals, unfortunately i only have that picture:
Edit2: Afaik the 18" layed in a Housing completly closed with the Cone looking to the Top and a plate with idk 10° and a small vent at the end.
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Ha, looks like you was outside your home when the amp was clipping all the way with the red light stuck
so you was outside to film the rattling windows then ...sudden silence!!
are you using analog or digital cross over?
what is the make and model of your crossover / processor
what is your Low Pass filter settings ?
if you do not have clipped your amp and you are sure
looks like wrong filter settings or... defective driver
when you removed the driver
do you verified that it was the make and model that thoman suppose to include inside ?
sometimes a light headed tech, install the wrong driver in the enclosure.
we need to make sure that those variables are not the issue
at last but not least, it can be a bad AMP, that is leaking DC to your driver
Direct Current is a driver killer, you can have a 990 euros B&C driver and those got roasted with a bad amp
that is outputting DC
see.... when you clip an amp badly and instead of sinewaves you got clipped saw waves... those look like square waves on the scope
and those... approximate very much DC ( direct current) that overheats and cook your coils
so... to me ... you killed the driver clipping the amp badly, but i was not there...
so
1.- check for correct driver
2.- check your crossover or Low pass filters settings
3.- check your amp for DC leakage
if all that is ok... then look for the neighbor that is doing VUDU to your system LOL
maybe they hate your muzak !!
for your reference i paste this procedure to check for DC leakage but the old cats here can advice some more on the subject
so you was outside to film the rattling windows then ...sudden silence!!
are you using analog or digital cross over?
what is the make and model of your crossover / processor
what is your Low Pass filter settings ?
if you do not have clipped your amp and you are sure
looks like wrong filter settings or... defective driver
when you removed the driver
do you verified that it was the make and model that thoman suppose to include inside ?
sometimes a light headed tech, install the wrong driver in the enclosure.
we need to make sure that those variables are not the issue
at last but not least, it can be a bad AMP, that is leaking DC to your driver
Direct Current is a driver killer, you can have a 990 euros B&C driver and those got roasted with a bad amp
that is outputting DC
see.... when you clip an amp badly and instead of sinewaves you got clipped saw waves... those look like square waves on the scope
and those... approximate very much DC ( direct current) that overheats and cook your coils
so... to me ... you killed the driver clipping the amp badly, but i was not there...
so
1.- check for correct driver
2.- check your crossover or Low pass filters settings
3.- check your amp for DC leakage
if all that is ok... then look for the neighbor that is doing VUDU to your system LOL
maybe they hate your muzak !!
for your reference i paste this procedure to check for DC leakage but the old cats here can advice some more on the subject
- Disconnect Inputs and Load: Before testing, disconnect any audio inputs and disconnect the amplifier from any connected speakers or loads.
- Set Multimeter: Set your multimeter to measure DC voltage. Choose a voltage range appropriate for the expected output voltage of the amplifier. For example, if you expect the amplifier to output voltages up to 50 volts, select a range that can measure at least 50 volts DC.
- Connect Multimeter: Connect the positive (red) probe of the multimeter to the positive terminal of one of the amplifier's output channels (usually the speaker output terminal). Connect the negative (black) probe of the multimeter to the amplifier's ground terminal or chassis ground.
- Power On: Power on the amplifier. Allow it to warm up and stabilize for a few minutes.
- Measure Voltage: Carefully observe the multimeter reading. It should ideally read zero volts DC (or very close to zero). Any significant voltage reading indicates DC leakage.
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Ok, now im wondering.
I just tried the chassis if it works and its working fine??????
Does that mean that just the isolation is mad at me?
Should i try giving him 1400W?....
We currently running some bass songs with the chassis lying around so he can "stink out"??
I also recorded him...the rattling is just becuase he sits on top of the achat housing...if i lift the chassis it sounds clean.
I just tried the chassis if it works and its working fine??????
Does that mean that just the isolation is mad at me?
Should i try giving him 1400W?....
We currently running some bass songs with the chassis lying around so he can "stink out"??
I also recorded him...the rattling is just becuase he sits on top of the achat housing...if i lift the chassis it sounds clean.
you guys speak german right in austria ?
we do not call the drivers chassis ... chassis is the metal frame of a pickup or car... or the mount plate of the PCB boards on a power amplifier
so we call the actual cone with the spider.coil, suspension etc
the Driver.... and the wood enclosure is the cabinet...
so i can further help you.,.. you need to answer the questions:
are you using analog or digital cross over?
what is the make and model of your crossover / processor?
what is your Low Pass filter settings ?
then
1.- check for correct driver
2.- check your crossover or Low pass filters settings
3.- check your amp for DC leakage
we do not call the drivers chassis ... chassis is the metal frame of a pickup or car... or the mount plate of the PCB boards on a power amplifier
so we call the actual cone with the spider.coil, suspension etc
the Driver.... and the wood enclosure is the cabinet...
so i can further help you.,.. you need to answer the questions:
are you using analog or digital cross over?
what is the make and model of your crossover / processor?
what is your Low Pass filter settings ?
then
1.- check for correct driver
2.- check your crossover or Low pass filters settings
3.- check your amp for DC leakage
No wonder!
that is one of your problems right there...
even that you do not completely kill your driver
you will if you do not use a High pass
your analog crossover only cant limit how low you can go....
so your ACHAT is receiving lower freq signal than 35HZ
listen, since i don't think you wan to buy a used dbx driverack PA or something like it
use one of this
just stick it on the channel that feds your sub
that way you will not feed freqs that will damage your driver
Subsonic Filter FMOD 37Hz High Pass @18dB
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/371974938301
Insert this in the RCA line to your amplifier to help control excessive woofer flapping. This will provide better bass detail and higher output potential with lower distortion while remaining virtually inaudible
This model is unique in the inline FMOD series as it's a higher 18dB slope. This means that it will cut off the low frequencies faster below it's cutoff frequency at a rate of 18dB per octave instead of the typical 12dB. This allows a lower cutoff but still good protection from over-excursion,
This unit works especially well since many speakers are tuned around 35-40Hz and most music does not go below that nor do most speakers have much capability below that range.
Subsonic filtering will minimize excessive excursions Minimizing excess excursion helps keep the woofer voice coil within the linear operating range and minimal effect to the sound other than making your system seem more dynamic and able to play at much higher level without woofer flapping sounds and distortion. It can also reduce flutter from turntables
what you did in your APO is for now but
you need a HIGH PASS at 35Hz LR 48db at least 24db Slope to be safe
play some 40hz test tone... then a 35hz test tone,,, then a 30hz test tone
if your APO cut is ok , you must hear good 40hz... weak 35 and almost none or none at 30hz
if you still hear strong 35hz and 30hz move the cut on your APO higher
and try again
you need a HIGH PASS at 35Hz LR 48db at least 24db Slope to be safe
play some 40hz test tone... then a 35hz test tone,,, then a 30hz test tone
if your APO cut is ok , you must hear good 40hz... weak 35 and almost none or none at 30hz
if you still hear strong 35hz and 30hz move the cut on your APO higher
and try again
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you need to do it the right way... those EQ cuts resemble those DJ's that just start to play with
stuff they stole from their mom living room.
get a second hand dbx drive rack or
at least
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini.htm
or
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini_pro.htm
stuff they stole from their mom living room.
get a second hand dbx drive rack or
at least
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini.htm
or
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.racks_dsp_4x4_mini_pro.htm
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