Normally a max flat alignment when the Qts = ~0.403; Vb = Vas, Fb = Fs, then making it a bit bigger since it's taller, hence yielding a bit better vent damping = tuning a little lower to flatten it out, so seems a pretty good guess at a glance.
GM
Thanks
But there are too many unknown variables; a shot in the dark. Hope this works.
Most of the straight TL/ MLTL designs I have seen has CSA of 2.5x Sd or more.
My guesswork is 1.72 x Sd. Again, Sd also effects line length. 2 variables right there.
Hope, Sd is all about managing the total volume.
You're welcome!
Well, way back in my building 'career', I mostly had no T/S, just Fs and published nomographs based on high output impedance amps and an Fb = Fs, so were 'fatter' than the later high output impedance + T/S specs, which pares off any excess cab volume [Vb].
Effective piston area [Sd] was fixed based on frame size and never used for other than determining vent area [Av].
The common box ratio was 1.0:2^0.5 [~1.414]:2.0, so for 'column'/'tower' alignments I calculated a box, then used its CSA for the taller one and whatever its Vb was I didn't care, just tuned it to be flat/whatever, then used the 'click' test to critically damp it to remove any 'ringing'/'overshoot':
Click Test | GM210 | Flickr
For 23.8 L = 23,800 cm^3:
23800^[1/3] = ~28.76 cm = width
depth = ~28.76/2^0.5 = ~20.34 cm
height = ~20.34*2 = ~40.68 cm
Which sums a little low at ~23,797 cm^3, so if used in the future may/may not want to round it up higher.
We only want ~28.76*20.34 = ~585 cm^2 = ~4.1x Sd is what I would have actually used, though again, this factors in using a SET or similar output impedance amp, but then I'd rather have too much than too little net [Vb] for in room 'voicing' than be left 'wanting'.
Once a T/S vented alignment routine for the masses came along I started simming to achieve a +3 dB/Fb peak for low and +6 dB for high output impedance and it was what it was, so try these to see if any of it suits you or at least gives you a range.
GM
Well, way back in my building 'career', I mostly had no T/S, just Fs and published nomographs based on high output impedance amps and an Fb = Fs, so were 'fatter' than the later high output impedance + T/S specs, which pares off any excess cab volume [Vb].
Effective piston area [Sd] was fixed based on frame size and never used for other than determining vent area [Av].
The common box ratio was 1.0:2^0.5 [~1.414]:2.0, so for 'column'/'tower' alignments I calculated a box, then used its CSA for the taller one and whatever its Vb was I didn't care, just tuned it to be flat/whatever, then used the 'click' test to critically damp it to remove any 'ringing'/'overshoot':
Click Test | GM210 | Flickr
For 23.8 L = 23,800 cm^3:
23800^[1/3] = ~28.76 cm = width
depth = ~28.76/2^0.5 = ~20.34 cm
height = ~20.34*2 = ~40.68 cm
Which sums a little low at ~23,797 cm^3, so if used in the future may/may not want to round it up higher.
We only want ~28.76*20.34 = ~585 cm^2 = ~4.1x Sd is what I would have actually used, though again, this factors in using a SET or similar output impedance amp, but then I'd rather have too much than too little net [Vb] for in room 'voicing' than be left 'wanting'
.Once a T/S vented alignment routine for the masses came along I started simming to achieve a +3 dB/Fb peak for low and +6 dB for high output impedance and it was what it was, so try these to see if any of it suits you or at least gives you a range.
GM
Hi Perceval,
Thank you so much for the sim.
Nice extension, but the enclosure is too large for me
I was hoping around 25 -30L with f3 40- 45Hz
Can you kindly show screenshots of the data you enter in Hornresp. Maybe, I can try some tinkering of my own. I really don't know where and how to start in Hornresp. Hope someone made a youtube tutorial
Thanks a lot, Perceval
Hornresp is very intimidating. I can begin playing with it now referring to your screenshots.
I just found a copy of the long gone Leonard Audio TL software. It seems more user friendly, like a much more advanced version of WinISD.
I have seen you using that software as well. Why do you use Hornresp when LA seems much more user friendly? Does LA lacks anything when it comes to TL simulation?
Hornresp is very intimidating. I can begin playing with it now referring to your screenshots.
I just found a copy of the long gone Leonard Audio TL software. It seems more user friendly, like a much more advanced version of WinISD.
I have seen you using that software as well. Why do you use Hornresp when LA seems much more user friendly? Does LA lacks anything when it comes to TL simulation?
I love LATL.
The graphical way of designing is much more intuitive, I admit.
Unfortunately, it is now abandoned-ware. Yet, the owner was kind enough to leave it free out there.
The most notable thing with LATL is the filling simulation, which is not really on par with HornResp.
Otherwise, it is just fine.
The real reason why I don't often use LATL anymore is that it doesn't run with WINE on my Mac. I need a real PC for that software.
But HornResp works fine on a Mac using WINE.
The graphical way of designing is much more intuitive, I admit.
Unfortunately, it is now abandoned-ware. Yet, the owner was kind enough to leave it free out there.
The most notable thing with LATL is the filling simulation, which is not really on par with HornResp.
Otherwise, it is just fine.
The real reason why I don't often use LATL anymore is that it doesn't run with WINE on my Mac. I need a real PC for that software.
But HornResp works fine on a Mac using WINE.
Just to be sure, which one are you talking about? LATL or WINE ( no idea what it is, but I can guess)
I got a copy of LATL somewhere in here, it works fine in windows. Not sure about Mac. If you want I can share the files.
Perceval,
Are you talking about LATL not supporting partial filing? Or do you think its simulations on filings in general are a little off?
I am doing partial filing using split elements.
Awesome software, since I use windows and can't figure out head and tails of Hornresp
Yep, I'm still using this one... it's important to follow the 2nd paragraph to the letter, otherwise it won't work.
Transmission Line Modelling Software
I suspect the reason why it doesn't work on Mac is the need for .net services, which I have never got working in WINE.
LATL and ran it on 2k Pro with no problems and later/now just fine on two different 7 pro 64 HP workbooks just fine till it froze up with this newer one awhile back. Me and computers generally don't get along, but the tedious work around a poster sent me went places I'd never been worked, but unfortunately died with the old laptop.
When I click on the link now this is what I get and if I click on 'continue', got to reboot.
GM
When I click on the link now this is what I get and if I click on 'continue', got to reboot.
GM
Attachments
Sorry, GM.
I'm really not a PC guy. I installed mine and it worked.
I suggest you post on the LATL thread to get better answers and more knowledgeable people regarding this.
Delete/reinstall should work. ISTR if something in the default model is broken it fails to start. I haven't had LATL cause reboots though.
Mutterings on Slack about using the old Programs and Features panel to delete Clickonce apps (I think LATL is). Rather than the new Win10 "Apps" panel. As apparently the Apps panels just breaks the installation.
Stumbled on this thread when designing TABAQ-like enclosure. Want to check my measurements with AMLTL technique.
Done exactly as described in the very first post, but... All I get are the boxes which are ~1/2 of TABAQ volume. Done with 3 drivers, but there seem to be a trend:
-Dayton PS95-8 - 5,44 Liters
-Dayton RS100-8 - 4,89 Liters
-FaitalPRO 3FE25-8 - also ~5 Liters
I think, that there are some bugs/bad settings in my WinISD (the last available version) or the interpretation of data is wrong, because when I input manually sensitivity of 3FE25 from calculated ~85 to 91 dB as manufacturer states - I get 19,39 Liters
Can someone run sim for those drivers? Or any other 3" that is popular, like Vifa, Visaton and so on. Thank you!
Done exactly as described in the very first post, but... All I get are the boxes which are ~1/2 of TABAQ volume. Done with 3 drivers, but there seem to be a trend:
-Dayton PS95-8 - 5,44 Liters
-Dayton RS100-8 - 4,89 Liters
-FaitalPRO 3FE25-8 - also ~5 Liters
I think, that there are some bugs/bad settings in my WinISD (the last available version) or the interpretation of data is wrong, because when I input manually sensitivity of 3FE25 from calculated ~85 to 91 dB as manufacturer states - I get 19,39 Liters
Can someone run sim for those drivers? Or any other 3" that is popular, like Vifa, Visaton and so on. Thank you!
I believe most of those drivers have been already discussed in the TABAQ thread.
I'm not sure what other information you are looking for.
As for sims, feel free to download HornResp (currently supported) or LeonardAudio TL app (discontinued but still working) for comparing your own findings.
I'm not sure what other information you are looking for.
As for sims, feel free to download HornResp (currently supported) or LeonardAudio TL app (discontinued but still working) for comparing your own findings.
Thank you for reply! Yes, I am sure, that they are discussed - I have read all the thread.
The difference is that I am designing custom, similar to TABAQ but not exactly the same enclosure and want to make another calculations, based on AMLTL...
Leonard Audio shows pretty little difference in any of the drivers mentioned, havent tried HornResp.
The question is if your WinISD shows the same default enclosures? Can you try them for me?
The key to the whole issue is your vent diameter which will determine the length of pipe. Diameter of vent is in turn dependent on driver diameter.
That is very strange, with this driver I get 2.03 Liters and 97.15Hz with default winisd options.
We are talking apples/oranges talk. The question is in WinISD as it is mentioned in #1 post of this thread. If you enter speaker into database and start default project with it you get some numbers. I get seriously strange box volume numbers. All the popular drivers - I get small englosures. My computer is new, so the installation of WinISD is fresh, with default options.
Also if I change vent diameter - graph does not change, also box dimention does not change too. I cannot change vent lenght, it is greyed out. So the problem may be in another place. If you can run couple popular 3" dirvers for me with default WinISD - I would be gratefull. Thanx!
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