Do you really think that it would somehow "fix" the analog signal that some not-so-good solid-state DAC has been delivering for it?
In my opinion & experience, the point is not to ADD tubes on the signal path, but to REMOVE transistors etc. from it.
Do you really think all those solid-state DACs are so bad? All we know is that you don't like their sound. That is a question of preference, not absolute "good" or "bad".
If you check the circuits of the "tube" DACs, they haven't removed any transistors or IC's in the signal path, they have just added a tube buffer (like the one I linked to), but in the same enclosure (and sometimes on the same circuit board - not a good idea).
If you think adding tubes to an opamp-loaded dac output is going to work the way the OP is looking for, you are entirely and unequivocally wrong.
Further, if you had bothered to read my last post, you'd have seen that the Monarchy 24 and a few other dacs in the same vein have NO solid state devices after the current output of each dac chip, rather JUST a passive i/v resistor & SRPP tube stage.
The Monarchy 24 that I've recently rebuilt/upgraded, and to which I added a high current line driver stage to allow the SRPP stage to see a constant idealised load resistance, does not sound "tubey" whatsoever, except in having greater soundstage depth than any solid state dac stage I've heard or built. And it sounds inarguably, globally & unequivocally superior to any dac I've heard that uses opamps or any other feedback-looped circuits in i/v and succeding stages, no matter how well designed, upgraded or expensive. Currently the best dac I have ever heard, and the new parts are not even halfway broken in yet(and I don't give a darn what you naysayers have to say about that subject).
Further, if you had bothered to read my last post, you'd have seen that the Monarchy 24 and a few other dacs in the same vein have NO solid state devices after the current output of each dac chip, rather JUST a passive i/v resistor & SRPP tube stage.
The Monarchy 24 that I've recently rebuilt/upgraded, and to which I added a high current line driver stage to allow the SRPP stage to see a constant idealised load resistance, does not sound "tubey" whatsoever, except in having greater soundstage depth than any solid state dac stage I've heard or built. And it sounds inarguably, globally & unequivocally superior to any dac I've heard that uses opamps or any other feedback-looped circuits in i/v and succeding stages, no matter how well designed, upgraded or expensive. Currently the best dac I have ever heard, and the new parts are not even halfway broken in yet(and I don't give a darn what you naysayers have to say about that subject).
You got my point exactly, stephensank, thanks for the good explanation! That's exacly what I'm looking for, and Monarchy is starting to be really interesting device.
Cotd also said well, but only halfly; "It's more a choice of opamp coloration, transistor coloration, transformer-coloration, or tube coloration." And I just seem to be very critical for transistor coloration. So, it is exactly about "removing transistors" from analog stage as much as possible; every transistor adds more or less coloration to the analog signal.
If you say so.
Sorry, but you are technically wrong. It is not inarguably superior if several of us are prepared to argue it
Sorry, but how do you know you are hearing "transistor coloration" rather than absence of tube coloration?
Well there was a project here that used Broskie's Akido unbalancer board/circuit to provide the output from the Buffalo DAC, the same circuit could be used with other D/A chips
Here is a link to the thread on the DAC:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196552-buffalo-iii-dac-tube-output-stage.html
And here is an article by J Broskie on using the unbalancer with links to the board. The Akido has been used with a wide variety of tubes:
The Unbalancer
Hope this is helpful.
Here is a link to the thread on the DAC:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/196552-buffalo-iii-dac-tube-output-stage.html
And here is an article by J Broskie on using the unbalancer with links to the board. The Akido has been used with a wide variety of tubes:
The Unbalancer
Hope this is helpful.
I don't actually care a bit where the coloration comes from, all I care is what I'm hearing. And as I said, all best DAC's that I have heard (and I have heard a few) have been using tubes on the analog stage rather than transistors.
I don't know if it is my English (it's my third and weakest language after all), but I'm starting to feel that it's quite hard to explain my point for this thread. But, as I said in my first post: "I would like to hear some experiences and comments on best possible balanced tube DAC kits". Everything else is out of scope for me.
Right. But maybe you should care. It is hard to find a solution if you don't know what the problem is.
English is my third language too, but fortunately not as weak as my fourth and fifth languages. I understand all to well that you only want to hear things that confirm your current beliefs, so I guess before we waste any more time - are you interested in a real answer or do you just want people to conform your assumptions?
Conform my assumptions on what...?
Regarding the problem, it was mentioned in the first post: "What I'm looking for is a tube DAC kit that would sound quality wise be a clear step up from MHDT, but wouldn't cost quite as much as those high end commercial tube dacs". Can it be any clearer?
So basically; if you haven't heard the MHDT and some better DAC (on your opinion, for your ears), there's pretty much nothing you can give for this thread.
Regarding the problem, it was mentioned in the first post: "What I'm looking for is a tube DAC kit that would sound quality wise be a clear step up from MHDT, but wouldn't cost quite as much as those high end commercial tube dacs". Can it be any clearer?
So basically; if you haven't heard the MHDT and some better DAC (on your opinion, for your ears), there's pretty much nothing you can give for this thread.
And that is what I (and others) have been trying to answer.
But you don't accept the answers because they don't conform to your belief system. Fair enough. As qusp stated, "we can lead a horse to water...."
I'm sorry, but I still don't get your point about my "belief system". I just wanted to hear other ones experiences on better balanced tube DAC's than Havana, and now there is about 8 pages of arguiging on strange technical issues and noice ratios and schematics and if tubes are worse than transistors or not. I did not want that. If you give me your experiences on the tube DAC kits as asked, how could I not accept it??
SO, what was the answer to my original question that I "did not accept"??
This thread is getting really weird...
But, most importantly, there have been a few really good ideas already given, and I appreciate them very much!
The OP asked for comments but has now made it clear that he doesn't want technical comments, so I guess that just leaves unsupported anecdotes. The difficulty is that other people's taste in distortion and frequency response imbalance may differ from the OP's. It would be like asking people for restaurant recommendations, but forbidding them to describe the food. "I didn't enjoy it" is OK; "the chef oversalted it" would be too technical.
I will give a summary of this thread. In post #1, the OP stated that he is looking for that tube sound but with better resolution than the MHDT Havana.
There are those who understand him just fine, and recommended the Unbalancer tube output stage for Bufallo III, which I've not built myself but it looks like a good project that would satisfy the OP's requirements. Certainly far superior than cheap Chinese offerings.
Then there are those who take issue with the statement that he does not like solid state coloration, and prefers to argue that his belief system is not rooted in reality, because tubes are even more colored.
There are those who understand him just fine, and recommended the Unbalancer tube output stage for Bufallo III, which I've not built myself but it looks like a good project that would satisfy the OP's requirements. Certainly far superior than cheap Chinese offerings.
Then there are those who take issue with the statement that he does not like solid state coloration, and prefers to argue that his belief system is not rooted in reality, because tubes are even more colored.
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