I just received a matched pair of FF85WKeN's that I ordered from Planet10 hifi and coincidentally, a pair of factory fresh non-enabled ones also arrived on the same day. Here they are:
Fostex's are solid heavy well built drivers. The magnets are substantial but the frames are thin. There is some damping putty or aerodynamic shaping putty on the Planet10's.
I look forward to testing these in the next round but at present an still looking for other drivers to include in the lineup. Maybe revisit some of the old ones again. I had considered doing a Vifa/ScanSpeak/Tymphany TC9FD/TG9FD/10F8424/Typ3 and FF85WK/FF85WKeN. That would be 6 drivers there.
Funny I ordered the same pair of drivers from planet 10 as well? Dave is the best . Jeff
You really do believe that, don't you? Have you even bothered to look at an actual complex song, recorded in a wave file? Looked at the actual way those nuances in music get send out to our speakers? A stereo file is just that, even a vinyl record is just that.
If I record a track on my speakers and compare to the original wave signal you can bet it looks way more like that original wave shape than if I did the same test with B&W speakers in this very same room. All of that can be seen in the impulse. You want to turn it into something magical or mystery. It really isn't.
From what you describe it's a good thing those mastering engineers aren't building our speakers. Because if you want to do that you should know better.
Really? A speaker that can play a square wave and have fast decaying CSD basically is like a light race car vs a heavier car. It can start and stop quickly - that is how you follow complex music. Music is just a waveform and the complex multi tonal music is just a waveform that is more challenging for speakers to follow. Especially ones that have ugly impulse or bad step response. The good step response means it can quickly accelerate and accurately reproduce a fast attack. Complex music is just lots of different frequency components mixed together. A speaker that satisfies the list I gave basically is immune to genre - so doesn't matter how complex or multi tonal it is. Big symphonic pieces with huge dynamic range and 100 instruments - all good.
Ok fellas...........clearly you have it all figured out. I'll continue to believe that the creation of music and the development of the tools (speakers) are more an art form than a static relationship between man and machine. Given we can digitally create images as wonderful as a Monet or Renoir, why would anyone even bother to paint?
We are all alive, analogue, and biologically diverse...........best to cherish what makes that so special instead of reducing our perceptions to graphs and numerical values. Academics is not a substitution for artistry.
With that, I bid this thread a heartfelt fair well. Enjoy your discoveries!
We are all alive, analogue, and biologically diverse...........best to cherish what makes that so special instead of reducing our perceptions to graphs and numerical values. Academics is not a substitution for artistry.
With that, I bid this thread a heartfelt fair well. Enjoy your discoveries!
Results for Round 5 (this thread is post 131):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...n-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a-14.html#post4494341
We really have different view on speakers and development.
As i read it in above in first quote you are kind of art creator in that you produce recordings and probably do the best so that the mix listened in your setup probably sound crazy good and realistic, and then in second quote you say development of speakers are an art form too.
Can agree development of speakers can be art form but only for speakers developed for musical instruments (an effect) not speakers for reproduction, speakers for reproduction need standardization to be a reference so we all in our respective places hear the same as you did when mixing the recording.
Think anyone can agree listening MEAT LOAF - BAT OUT OF HELL album verse any MARK KNOPFLER solo album is a night and day experience regarding sound, it can be by purpose but can also be because development of speakers for reproduction is artistry and add a new layer from brand to brand instead of being academic standardization and bring same reproduced sound to everyone so we all hear the same art.
Another example is listen guitar solo in PINK FLOYD - COMFORTABLY NUMB on a 3-way speaker where drivers is not correct time aligned and XO slope is more than first order IIR filters, there is typical more harmonics and bigger space for that guitar sound than one can ever do on ones own guitar gear, then listen same track via good headphones or time aligned speakers that can reproduce square waves, now suddenly guitar sounds as something ones own guitar gear can be set up to.
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There is art to speaker designing for sure, but most of it is based on proven physics and science using simulations, models, measurements, data. etc. The overall approach, design aesthetic, and strategy to utilize human psychoacoustics is still art, but not the same kind as art made by Monet, Pablo Neruda, or Norah Jones. For sure, a speaker won't get created without some initital imagination. However, it is completely different than real creative art like: painting, writing, and music, where without the artists' continual creativity for every brush stroke, and comma, note, there would not exist the artists' work which can be appreciated and enjoyed by others. Speaker building, on the other hand, can be completely prescriptive once a formula or method is developed and that method says to make a speaker that can produce the items I listed earlier: good FR, IR, SR, phase, DR, HD, etc. then the speaker is guaranteed to sound good and be able to accurately *reproduce* the artistry created by a musician/producer/mix engineer in a record or song.
This makes no sense. You still need creativity to put each pixel in place even with digital. Art like Monet does not self generate from any computer code that I know of.
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>>> Again.......this is all subjective anyways so what you or I believe can and will be different than Planet, Godzilla, and others.
I always enjoy being mentioned, thanks!
>>> I'll continue to believe that the creation of music and the development of the tools (speakers) are more an art form than a static relationship between man and machine.
I love art! I'm actually an artist but must call myself a Digital Designer in order to get work. Nearly everything I do professionally is based on someones subjective opinion - typically mine - although occasionally I must provide a Google Analytics report which is definitely not subjective. Forever, I'll be an aspiring Fine Artist.
I consider raw drivers as well as completed speakers art. Some art sucks... but that's my opinion.
I'm looking forward to this blind test. Tho it's subjective it's also very analytical. Drivers I've purchased have been included in these tests and usually lose. I never get offended because it's all in the spirit of discovery and community. We are a DIY community of speaker builders. Collectively we push the performance of our DIY projects further. The last 10 years have been very eventful! Voigt, TQWP, BIB's, FAST, to name a few. I never would have tried OB if not for this community. I love OB!
So in the spirit of DIY and community I say let's move forward with as many listening tests, measurements and design ideas we can muster. And let's scrutinize them so we can continue to move our hobby beyond what we thought we were capable of just a few years ago.
I always enjoy being mentioned, thanks!
>>> I'll continue to believe that the creation of music and the development of the tools (speakers) are more an art form than a static relationship between man and machine.
I love art! I'm actually an artist but must call myself a Digital Designer in order to get work. Nearly everything I do professionally is based on someones subjective opinion - typically mine - although occasionally I must provide a Google Analytics report which is definitely not subjective. Forever, I'll be an aspiring Fine Artist.
I consider raw drivers as well as completed speakers art. Some art sucks... but that's my opinion.
I'm looking forward to this blind test. Tho it's subjective it's also very analytical. Drivers I've purchased have been included in these tests and usually lose. I never get offended because it's all in the spirit of discovery and community. We are a DIY community of speaker builders. Collectively we push the performance of our DIY projects further. The last 10 years have been very eventful! Voigt, TQWP, BIB's, FAST, to name a few. I never would have tried OB if not for this community. I love OB!
So in the spirit of DIY and community I say let's move forward with as many listening tests, measurements and design ideas we can muster. And let's scrutinize them so we can continue to move our hobby beyond what we thought we were capable of just a few years ago.
This is the only poll of the group that I participated in and for what it's worth, the FR88EX was a clear winner for me. The Alpine grabbed me out of the gate but after a few bars, it became annoying quickly and would result in pretty bad fatigue after a while. The Vifa TC7 and the Tang Band were tied for me.....both seemed a bit polite for my taste.
I'm gonna now compare the FR88EX to the 10F of which both drivers I own.
I'm gonna now compare the FR88EX to the 10F of which both drivers I own.
Has anyone seen or tried these full range drivers? $10/pair seems like not much to try.
2pcs 2.5 inch Full Range Speaker 2.5inch 8 ohm 15W DIY Square Stereo Audio Horn PU Edge Loudspeaker HT Home Theater Speakers-in Speakers from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
2pcs 2.5 inch Full Range Speaker 2.5inch 8 ohm 15W DIY Square Stereo Audio Horn PU Edge Loudspeaker HT Home Theater Speakers-in Speakers from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Round 6?
I appreciate tremendously the sound clips that you have provided. Just a thought: if you someday decide to add more drivers to the mix, I wonder how the following would fare (in more or less increasing order of price):
Fountek FE87, Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4 BMR, Dynavox LY302F, Aurasound NS3-193-8A1, Markaudio Pluvia Seven, Fountek FR135EX, and Fostex FX120.
The NS3 might be the odd one out in this list, but I have always thought it must sound better than portrayed on the various YouTube clips. You showed that was true of the Dayton RS100-4.
I appreciate tremendously the sound clips that you have provided. Just a thought: if you someday decide to add more drivers to the mix, I wonder how the following would fare (in more or less increasing order of price):
Fountek FE87, Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4 BMR, Dynavox LY302F, Aurasound NS3-193-8A1, Markaudio Pluvia Seven, Fountek FR135EX, and Fostex FX120.
The NS3 might be the odd one out in this list, but I have always thought it must sound better than portrayed on the various YouTube clips. You showed that was true of the Dayton RS100-4.
I think I did the Tectonics already. But really I don't have time for doing any more driver comparisons. If you want something compared it starts with giving me or loaning me a set. That's how it all started. I can't afford to buy all these drivers just to test them.
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