ScottG said:
Andy Graddon said:
Scott, I agree completely. As far as measured performance goes these look very good for the price.
Just to highlight how good lets take my own reference for flat out best speaker in that I've ever heard:
The CSD of the ATC SCM70ASL:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/5/index5.html
And here's the RS6:
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/index3.html
Now let get this straight right here. The ATC SCM70 is a $30,000 speaker vs. the $1000 RS6! A single ATC midrange driver alone comes to $700.
Now its clear measurements aren't everything because the RS6's aren't even approaching the performance of the SCM70's (to my ears) and I strongly suspect that the fantastic power response of the ATC's gives them their magic. No other speaker I've seen measured has ever shown such a linear character at extreme off-axis measurements. There's also a rather radical difference in cabinet construction between the two and the fact that the ATC's are active designs.
But what is clear here is that the RS6's completely smash the ATC's to bits when it comes to value for money - I mean come on, no speaker on earth is worth $30,000 and I don't care how good it is, nothing justifies that cost just for a pair of speakers. And if your just considering the measured response of each speaker, I'd say the RS6 clearly beats the ATC in at least one key area.
I fully stand by my listening impressions of the RS6 and will say again that these really are some of the best speakers available for the money. I seriously thought I was listening to £1500/$3000 worth until I asked the price.
I wouldn't buy a pair though, I'd much rather DIY. There's only a handful of folks on here that could manage to better them with a DIY design and keep the cost of the materials lower than the RRP on these but if you factor in the expense in time as well then I fully expect it to be impossible to beat the value on offer.
As Scott has already said; these are real value.
Be careful when comparing those 2 CSD graphs above. At first glance, the RS6 does indeed look far superior.
However, it's tweeter resonance (about 12 dB at 22kHz) has the effect of shifting the entire response down 12 dB, as the MLS autoscales, thus much of the resonant energy is hidden below the floor of the graph. The ATC is using almost the entire 30dB vertical scale, but the RS6 is only using about 18dB.
However, it's tweeter resonance (about 12 dB at 22kHz) has the effect of shifting the entire response down 12 dB, as the MLS autoscales, thus much of the resonant energy is hidden below the floor of the graph. The ATC is using almost the entire 30dB vertical scale, but the RS6 is only using about 18dB.
morbo said:
I'm not so sure about that -
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
With a bit of thought and some effort, superior aesthetics to even high-end commercial designs is easily achieveable.
OK, I have to confess to being somewhat biased.....
ShinOBIWAN said:
The reference magnitude is 36db. Just 10 db is very usefull (..and here we effectivly have between 20-24 db).
Additionally, it isn't just about level, but also about time. For instance the ATC is very good for freq.s above 2 kHz where the decay is well down in level (18 db minimum) just beyond the .6 millisecond range. However below this freq. (say 1 kHz) the decay is only down 12 db at the 1 millisecond mark (almost double the time). Conversly the Monitor Audio is down at least 18 db around .7 milliseconds throughout the measured response (..exepting the ringing above 20 kHz).
The problem is that HOW a low decay is achieved can be misleading as to overall sound quality. If its intrinsic to the driver, (not including pading it might have if its part of a sealed enclosure like a tweeter), everything is OK. If its through significant rear wave dampening that causes air-flow resistance, the sound quality usually goes down (significantly). Note the comments here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75940&pagenumber=2
ScottG said:
I tend to agree with the last paragraph.
The faster decay in the ear sensitive areas, the cleaner the sound will be, but if accomplished by using brute force damping, lots of the detail will be killed. I would do comparisons with charts that show at least 40db below the first curve, and non-smoothed (the ones here seem smoothed.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Pardon me for calling you a snob because,
well,
I am.
Some of us are not blessed with perfect ears. We work with loud power tools, and have had a dozen odd ear infections when we were kids. We don't have turntables, we use our computers for sound because (Gasp!) we actually have the music we like on them. (Los Amigos Invisibles on LP, until recently, required a trip to venezuela. I'll take a pass on that.)
A simple speaker setup based around some Hi-Vi or Tang-Band drivers and some PVC pipe, scrap MDF/plywood (yay for construction sites!) and scrap metal can sound pretty good, from what I've heard. I'm just getting into the scene, but it sounds like fun to me.
Besides, Fostex drivers can be had used on eBay for 10$ per if you're lucky.
I also think that most DIY people are morons for paying too much for many parts. For example, it's not uncommon to pay 30$ a pop for knobs. Cast the blasted things yourself, and stob being lazy. (The same applies to enclosures, too. Get a torch, some scrap metal, and a pair of shears. It's not that hard; I cast rings every two days, and they're much trickier.) If you REALLY want a professional-looking job, rip apart an old VCR or something, or turn it on a lathe.
Spasticteapot said:
I work just as hard anyone else for my wage at the end of the week. If pointing out that comparing $60 speakers to $1000 commercial efforts that sound great for the money is a little off then yeah I must be a snob.
Wow, who cares what the next guy is spending on DIY? As long as we're all happy I can't see the problem. Just because someone wants to spend more than you would doesn't make them a moron.
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