Bushmeister: If you had to redesign, would you use the same drivers?
I'm currently looking into building a high-end set for myself in a listening room, and the synergy horn is interesting. The things I'd change compared to your design are:
1) The speaker will be a floorstanding one, so I'd use 70l for woofers.
2) The horn will be build out of plywood, possibly one designed with bwaslos excellent calculator.
I'm currently looking into building a high-end set for myself in a listening room, and the synergy horn is interesting. The things I'd change compared to your design are:
1) The speaker will be a floorstanding one, so I'd use 70l for woofers.
2) The horn will be build out of plywood, possibly one designed with bwaslos excellent calculator.
Yep I would!
But my design was built around the 18 sound horn, so would be very different with your own.
I do think that using the HF driver (whether compression driver, ring radiator, or full range driver) down to 500-600hz makes life much easier, as you don't have to squeeze mids into the equation.
Soon mine will also be a floor stander - with 18 inch pro driver running from 20-100 hz.
The black finish will also be going - this was always going to be temporary, so either veneer, or better painted finish.....maybe matt white.....
But my design was built around the 18 sound horn, so would be very different with your own.
I do think that using the HF driver (whether compression driver, ring radiator, or full range driver) down to 500-600hz makes life much easier, as you don't have to squeeze mids into the equation.
Soon mine will also be a floor stander - with 18 inch pro driver running from 20-100 hz.
The black finish will also be going - this was always going to be temporary, so either veneer, or better painted finish.....maybe matt white.....
I see, I think I'll stick to the same drivers as well then 
Your build is very nice, and I can imagine the pre-designed waveguide gives very good results. However, I'm not very fond of the aesthetics of the black plastic PA horns, and would rather build my own out of ply. Just look at these beauties:
Also I don't know if you are anyone in this thread has used Hornresp a lot, but I can't understand how I am supposed to input the parameters from bwaslo calculator to Hornresp. There is no Con12, Con23, Con34...
Your build is very nice, and I can imagine the pre-designed waveguide gives very good results. However, I'm not very fond of the aesthetics of the black plastic PA horns, and would rather build my own out of ply. Just look at these beauties:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Also I don't know if you are anyone in this thread has used Hornresp a lot, but I can't understand how I am supposed to input the parameters from bwaslo calculator to Hornresp. There is no Con12, Con23, Con34...
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just type in square box I drawn.
put mouse pointer on the text and click to con, or exp, what you need and fill in the calculator stuff there in line with S1 S3 etc.
So click on text exp, to see con, and L34 to see con, double click on input box and calculate if it does not let put in something and save there.
regards
put mouse pointer on the text and click to con, or exp, what you need and fill in the calculator stuff there in line with S1 S3 etc.
So click on text exp, to see con, and L34 to see con, double click on input box and calculate if it does not let put in something and save there.
regards
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I have seen when sim with a filter the horns who do load the speaker well do act not well with a analog filter, a conical horn has less load and that is more spread and this give good action on a analog filter, Can I use a impedance corrention circuit to overcome this error?
Thanks.
kees
Thanks.
kees
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Just simulate with hornresp, and you see, it has a nice strong motor and low qts, good for horns, I presume for bass.
regards
You can try a Zobel or other correction network but you would probably have to export the simulation results and then import them to a crossover design tool like XSIM in order to do so. You need to do this at some point because if you have several passive PEQs in parallel, you need to worry about the overall input impedance of the crossover from the point of view of the amplifiers ability to drive it. XSIM will give you more visibility into those issues.
My personal preference would be do use DSP and not have to deal with them. Even if I were going passive ultimately, I would simulate the digital EQ first to determine the PEQ F0, Q, and gain/loss needed.
In a 2-way Synergy horn, an 8" woofer can be a challenge if trying to crossover to a CD at 1 Khz or higher, simply due to the size of the woofer. A large woofer traps more air under its cone that acts like a low pass filter. A mid port hole located at the edge of an 8" woofer's cone, can suffer 1/2 wave cancellation with sound arriving from the opposite edge, again limiting how high it can be crossed over. In this thread crossovers have been down around 500 Hz where these limits don't come into play. If you are planning to crossover at 800 hz or higher, I would say be careful.
Hi
Thanks for the info, plan was a three way, I have seen two way versions but have a real other way of implementation or even special made speakers.
The phillips however go wide, but only with a small port to horn of 54 cm2 that is very small giving compression to woofer, I do however not now what is the best port dimensions?, when use two woofers and 4 ports that is for 1/2 x Sd is 56,5 cm2 each port who is workable.
The port dimensions do have impact, special when used with conical horn it has not such a peak higher in freq, with a tractrix it have a big one of 10 plus dB, so making a natural low pas is better possible with a conical horn, the peak in a tractrix or exp horn is caused by the compression and the flare.
I did read somewhere about it, but can not find it anymore.
regards
I see, I think I'll stick to the same drivers as well then
Your build is very nice, and I can imagine the pre-designed waveguide gives very good results. However, I'm not very fond of the aesthetics of the black plastic PA horns, and would rather build my own out of ply. Just look at these beauties:
Also I don't know if you are anyone in this thread has used Hornresp a lot, but I can't understand how I am supposed to input the parameters from bwaslo calculator to Hornresp. There is no Con12, Con23, Con34...
I missed this post - those are nice wooden horns. Did you get all your HR questions all sorted out? The best way to sim a synergy is with Akabak as you can include both woofer and tweeter.
The Hornresp Multiple Entry Horn Loudspeaker Wizard tool can also simulate three-way Synergy-type systems.
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Hi David
I did play with that, however, did not yet find out how to do that.
But your software get smarter al the time, look out it get not smarter then you
I did find on the internet this horn, who looks a constant directivity horn, but my attention is about the plug in it, what if I try this in the trynergy.
regards
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Oh, thanks for that David. I have not been keeping up with HR. Will have to check it out. I know the normal interface has just one driver T/S parameter input, is the interface now different for multiple drivers?
You did a bunch of phase plug experiments already, if I recall correctly. Wasn't your finding that it was better overall without a phase plug for a cone driver?
This is a other kind of plug, a hf injector like thing.
I did some plugs yes and non dit go full bandwith, plan is still a K-tube, but first we do the circlotron, horn a winter project.
For Hornresp a three way tractrix I did now it was not implemented, I do not now if it also is for exponential horns, but only the conical,
the synergy is a very nice system I one day go try.
regards
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Little humble Akabak VS hornresp sims with my 3ways multiple entry horn project (using huge fixed delay, and 1rd crossovers, with kind of filler driver woofer) :
1) with some watts added in hornresp sims to show curves differences easier (easy to see/evaluate in low freq) : power response (not acoustic/on axis sim) using fix delays + 1rd crossovers. Filler driver in green, and fullrange in red, total in black from akabak sim. Only show here total hornresp power resp in red.
2) 0° freq response (horn simplified to 1 segment in hornresp) at exact same watt power, 1st order high pass. In low range, non coherent black line is just hornresp sim without filtering. Don't pay attention to it.
My conclusions : more high with akabak/less mid and lot more difference in directivity => i remember having readen David explaning that the model he use in hornresp for directivity is better in high freq.
Real result measurement in few days...
1) with some watts added in hornresp sims to show curves differences easier (easy to see/evaluate in low freq) : power response (not acoustic/on axis sim) using fix delays + 1rd crossovers. Filler driver in green, and fullrange in red, total in black from akabak sim. Only show here total hornresp power resp in red.
2) 0° freq response (horn simplified to 1 segment in hornresp) at exact same watt power, 1st order high pass. In low range, non coherent black line is just hornresp sim without filtering. Don't pay attention to it.
My conclusions : more high with akabak/less mid and lot more difference in directivity => i remember having readen David explaning that the model he use in hornresp for directivity is better in high freq.
Real result measurement in few days...
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How would one simulate different back chamber volumes for the midrange and woofers using hornresp - if that is possible at all?
- or is it assumed that they share the same back chamber volume?
Maybe I need to play with it a bit.