9 year old Yamaha bookshelfs unveiling - not particularly impressed

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And as to the XO, there is nothing wrong with the topology at all. Matter of fact there is a lot to commend it -- if you can control the performance of your drivers to get away with this. Matter of fact, if you can get the drivers right, this is the best XO possible (just don't use a cheap bipolar elco cap. It can also be a cheap way to be able to say its a 2-way. I've taken apart more than 1 Japanese speaker with quite a decent FR and a tweeter XOed in at 20kHz.


I agree. I think you will be surprised. I bet there is more time then you would think put into the woofer such that it can running full range with "smooth" upper-end roll-off. Then you just tailor the tweeter to match.

There is the opposite agreement that a big complicated X-Over is making up for other more serious design flaws.

Just think, the design breaks every DIY rule and it sound pretty good.
 
Lynn Olson said:
My guess on the costs and likely profit by Yamaha:

$4.80 woofer (10,000 unit price)
$1 tweeter (10,000 unit price)
$0.20 cap (50,000 unit price, spread over several models)
$6 cabinet, which has a rather nice exterior, which costs extra
$1 assembly & quick-test labor cost

= $13 parts and labor per speaker

$3 cardboard and foam packaging for two speakers (this always costs more than you expect)

$3 container transport and warehousing in the USA (mostly warehousing cost)

= $32 per pair, as delivered in the Yamaha USA warehouse and then stored for several months to several years

Now let's look at the retail end: If they list for $150 a pair, the normal retailer profit margin is between 40 and 50 points, or $60 to $75 profit per pair. Let's assume the retailer buys at least a thousand of them and gets the most favorable margin of 50%. So the retailer gets them in the door for $75 a pair.

Although container shipping is (very) cheap, UPS to the retailer isn't, and the manufacturer is expected to pick this up. The best deal Yamaha can probably get is $5 to $10 from the nearest warehouse to the retailer (depending on distance), so they end up with a net payment of $65 to $70 per pair.

You can see that Yamaha isn't really getting rich on this, with only $33 to $38 to show for a pair of speakers. I suspect that the costs for the woofer and enclosure are somewhat lower than my guesses.

Don't forget Engineering and Design time. I am sure there are prototype builds and testing also. Finally, there may be part tooling also if the speakers are new. You could easily spend $500,000 with these activities. If they sell 50,000 pair per year, that is $10/pair.
 
We tossed out a pair of those a few weeks back, the surrounds had gone the usual path. These must have been the next model up as the crossover had 2 inductors, a cap and a resistor, but had the same care to detail with the glue runs.

But what I noticed was the similarity of the driver frame with that of the Realistics of years gone by. But then they were only cad plated.

BTW, if you want old Realistic or Yamaha drivers, try looking for Dai1chi.

Going on the trade prices from the distributor, Lynns figures aren't far of the mark. There's more to be had from selling than manufacturing. But I think the recession of the early eighties has a lot to do with it. Aluminium knobs became plastic and so on, and the powers that be created the "throw away" society convincing us recycling was a good thing.

Just my $2 (retail) worth.
 
69stingray said:


Don't forget Engineering and Design time. I am sure there are prototype builds and testing also. Finally, there may be part tooling also if the speakers are new. You could easily spend $500,000 with these activities. If they sell 50,000 pair per year, that is $10/pair.
An OEM manufacturer like Eminence could whip up a set of drivers very easily for near zero extra cost provided you bought more than the minimum amount something Yamaha would easily do. Plenty of other companies could also. There isn't a lot of R&D in these, probably some resident engineer put a couple of hours into them, max.
 
these are all valid points,

circlotron - i have to say that the placebo effect did kick in, and i started noticing things that i didnt like about how they sounded after I cracked them open.

And the fact that yes, these look identical in construction and quality to my so called "studio acoustics" floor standers that i bought from strathfields years ago, says that they probably came from the same factory / build methadologies.

End of the day, they have done the job, I should stop complaining because I am not an audiophile.

Majority of people that buy audio equipment wouldnt know what a $30,000 system would sound like, therefore these type of speakers at that particular build would sound very good. Audio perception its very subjective
 
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