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6P21s 6n21c tube, True Direct Heater?

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I registered at the Russian Audio Portal and put in a post in English on the thread. It dates from 2007 so we shall see if anything happens!

Better search it, the Audioportal is the place of beliefs and fashions, and they don't like when somebody asks questions that they already discussed. I started topics several times, they closed them, "This topic had been already discussed", so I don't participate there any more.
 
Hello Charm - that's very interesting. Some 6P21 curves for a start. These says R k-a 360 ohms. That would be between screen and anode?

What's Voldemar saying about 6P21 and 6C4C?

Прошлушивание более 1-й недели SE на 6П21С, нынешний владелец усилителя предпочел вариант именно с ней. Сравнить непосредственно с SE на 6С4С пока не удалось, имхо 6П21С не-настолько и плоха для применения в SE. Вопрос, кто-нить анализировал данные в статье журнала Радио№11,2003г *Спектры гармонических искажений в электронных лампах* Е.Карпова. С уважением Voldemar.

Translation:

Listening longer than 1 week current owner preferred 6P21S. Couuld not compare yet to SE on 6S4S, but IMHO 6P21S is not so bad for SE. I have a question: did anybody analyze data from an article of E. Karpov, "Spectrums of harmonic distortions in vacuum tubes", Radio #11, 2003?

Сам дома слушаю 6С4С,у товарища был SE 6П3С,который переделали под 6П21С.В живую т.е. непосредственно сравнить пока не получается.Хотя чисто субъективно 6С4С звучит лучшее,вариант SE на 6П21С тож не плох.По советам более опытных,сейчас подыскиваю трансы для РР (ради эксперимента мотать не хоца.Имею пару УНЧ *ЗУ-470*,там на выходе стоят 6П3С,думаю попробовать на них.
Translation:
I myself listen at home 6S4S, my comrade had SE on 6P3S that had been modified for 6P21S. Still can't compare side by side, even though subjectively 6S4S sounds better, and variant with 6P21S is not bad. By advise of gurus I am searching for PP transformers (don't want to wind them for an experiment only). I have a couple of Zu-470 amps that use 6P3S output, will try on them.


Очень хорошая лампочка. Стояла некоторое время у меня драйвером к 300. Легкий подвижный звук, естественный и свободный. Недостаток один - слегка рыхлит бас. Лучше звучит при фиксированном смещении, строже, точнее. Насчет того что 6с4с лучше нее, как-то я не прочувствовал....

Translation:
Very good valve. I used it some time as a driver for 300B. Light fast sound, natural and relaxed. Slightly bloated bass. Sounds better with fixed bias: stricter, more precise. I did not have feeling as if 6S4S is better.
 
Hey Rod,
Don´t think that one will work with a bifilar IT though.

Will come back with an alternative MJK style Schade-driver.

Anyone got a pentode spicemodel?

Why not go for 250V screen? Think the tube will take that.

Hi Lars!

What's up with a bifilar??

I use the Koren models as being closer to the real tubes than others - and they work with the native tetrode & pentode symbols in LTspice. The SVEL509 is in there (gm too high, but will work with lower VG2). Attached...

Yes, 250V screen is possible. But only use as much screen voltage as you need for your load line.... they are only 18W bottles! I would start LOW and only increase screen voltage if it needs more power. The screens are probably fragile on this Beam Tube.
 

Attachments

  • korenvalvelib.zip
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I will be more than happy to trace pentode or schade curves but unfortunately will have to fix tracer after the fireworks caused by 814 in triode :)
Ale

The tracer would be ideal for developing a Schade 6P21S. Run it for a family of different feedback resistors, starting with just a little feedback, until the curves look right.

How high will the voltage go, when you have the fix for it :eek:
 
Rod,
This was the basic topology I was thinking of. Can and should be refined.
EL90.png
 
Hi Lars,

The bifilar has problems with LF resonances?

***

In the FET-driver schematics, the FET is injecting current into the output stage? To match the open-loop nonlinearity of the tetrode? If so, I will have some fun with that.



If anyone has time to transcribe the curves from Charm's linked post into an LTSPICE model, we will be roundly grateful!
 
Work will be bad, you can see without spaysmodel:

Hey SVStube, you just exposed your ignorance;).

Before you post, I suggest you use "search" at diyaudio. In this case you would have found out this topology works great. Michael Koster have designed and built a few.You should also had spiced it to find it also sims great.

It actually works at least as good as a D3a pentode as Schade-driver.

This is the prototype from MJK:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/165221-most-linear-triode-strapped-pentode-7.html#post2204502
 
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The tracer would be ideal for developing a Schade 6P21S. Run it for a family of different feedback resistors, starting with just a little feedback, until the curves look right.

How high will the voltage go, when you have the fix for it :eek:

Rod,
It can go up to 335-350V
As per Lars' request I will trace at Vs=250V
I think I can add a simple pot divider between anode and G1 to trace the curves in Schade?
Ale
 
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