Please , Tinitus !!!!
A modern 10$ dome tweeter would outperform any combination of those .
And why OB ( open baffle ) ? Drivers for OB need to be powerful ,and long excursion .
And you would lose most of speaker's efficiency .
I would remove the tissue from the basket ,first .
Then ,decide to make a whole new cabinet with only the woofer and a new tweeter ,and given the difference from 10" to 1" , probably a wave guide for the tweeter .
Or maybe ,also the midrange ,to fill the gap
Cheers !!!
A modern 10$ dome tweeter would outperform any combination of those .
And why OB ( open baffle ) ? Drivers for OB need to be powerful ,and long excursion .
And you would lose most of speaker's efficiency .
I would remove the tissue from the basket ,first .
Then ,decide to make a whole new cabinet with only the woofer and a new tweeter ,and given the difference from 10" to 1" , probably a wave guide for the tweeter .
Or maybe ,also the midrange ,to fill the gap
Cheers !!!
Open baffle meaning the same as open back/non-sealed enclosure?
I would like to make these a DECENT sounding pair of speakers, just don't quite have the know it all to make it happen, especially in the XO/electrical department.
So I was thinking of just using the woofer, mid, and one tweeter. Mainly to keep the price down, and avoid a 4 way crossover. 3 way seems hard enough already... So right now my question is which tweeter will be more beneficial: tweeter or super tweeter?
I will attempt a layout of the current XO diagram later.
I would like to make these a DECENT sounding pair of speakers, just don't quite have the know it all to make it happen, especially in the XO/electrical department.
So I was thinking of just using the woofer, mid, and one tweeter. Mainly to keep the price down, and avoid a 4 way crossover. 3 way seems hard enough already... So right now my question is which tweeter will be more beneficial: tweeter or super tweeter?
I will attempt a layout of the current XO diagram later.
The more the merrier is just WRONG.
How many mouths has a singer got ?
One day we will have the perfect single driver. Until such times we have to accept that mechanics are not as good as nature and that we need more than one driver to obtain the dynamics that we are looking for.
But simply to state that 6Ways is better than 4 is WRONG.
How many mouths has a singer got ?
One day we will have the perfect single driver. Until such times we have to accept that mechanics are not as good as nature and that we need more than one driver to obtain the dynamics that we are looking for.
But simply to state that 6Ways is better than 4 is WRONG.
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That sounds like a good idea. I would say the elimination of the "super" tweeter is the most logical. I'd guess that it has been implemented for frequencies above 10K anyways, which many people are deaf to anyways. The regular "tweeters" should get you up to ~10k well enough. For an un-measured modification, I'd just calculate up a low value inductor to roll things off gently above ~8-10K. I'd rather have that segment suppressed than play guesswork games trying to "fix" whatever peaky behavior may or may not be present above that point.
The more throats that you have got, the more complex the design.
Have you considered Time Domain.
The same sound originates from all the throats at the same time. The Bass speaker is deeper than the Mid that is deeper than the tweeter. Therefore the origin of a single sound is different.
The crossover also adds phase difference.
Have you considered Time Domain.
The same sound originates from all the throats at the same time. The Bass speaker is deeper than the Mid that is deeper than the tweeter. Therefore the origin of a single sound is different.
The crossover also adds phase difference.
i would like to see the xover too.
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are you talking about replacing the current woofer with a different woofer or adding a separate sub to the "system?"
There's a very good chance that the woofers in those systems are being run full range to cut on component costs, and that's why they sound as though they are overlapping the mids a lot.
Only way to know for sure is get some more info on any current x-over components.
There's a very good chance that the woofers in those systems are being run full range to cut on component costs, and that's why they sound as though they are overlapping the mids a lot.
Only way to know for sure is get some more info on any current x-over components.
You missed the woofer .
The sub , as the name says , is under the woofer ,following the scale of frequency ,from left to right , as usually represented on the horizontal axis .
So , in an hypotethical 6 way speaker , the dream of the dreams , there would be :
A subwoofer ; a woofer ; a lower midrange ( indeed ,they are called mid-woofer ,and they are the mainstream of speakers ) ;an upper midrange
; a tweeter ; and a super tweeter Basically having the same 3 driver setup, only instead of having a woofer, a subwoofer in its place: subwoofer, mid, tweeter.
And I said overlapping frequencies, not from what I've heard from the speakers, but just from what I know about speakers and their ranges.
Hey man ...stop it !!
The other day Earl had quoted me ; today Tommt and Dave , it's too much !!
but...maybe you ( and ...Tinitus : two mods ,double score ) are right : the other speakers just can't keep up with the modern rivals .
Everything 's got to be at the same level ,at least when speaking of sensitivity.
And also dispersion . So yes
Tinitus said that is a thought job for the experienced !
And..that says it all
The other day Earl had quoted me ; today Tommt and Dave , it's too much !!
but...maybe you ( and ...Tinitus : two mods ,double score ) are right : the other speakers just can't keep up with the modern rivals .
Everything 's got to be at the same level ,at least when speaking of sensitivity.
And also dispersion . So yes
Tinitus said that is a thought job for the experienced !
And..that says it all
Thanx for the pictures.
You have managed to score one of the older all Alnico ones... i've only had ceramic versions of the woofer. If the alnico hasn't lost significant charge you have something special.
The midrange is unfortunately of the closed-back variety. Open back ones are are actually quite decent FRs.
The tweeter is as expected, bonus that it is alnico.
Looks like you can write off one pair of the supertweeters, too bad. These are quite special, and probably deserve to be used as a super-tweeter with a small modern FR that needs a bit of help at the top.
To expand on what has been posted earlier, you can prototype an enclosure, by fitting a new bffle over the old. I would start with a 2-way using a single tweeter & the 10". These tweeters can be XOed as low as 2.5k 1st order if you don't push too hard -- it could be made more robust on the bottom by placing it in a waveguide. The woofer should roll off fairly smoothly so there is a simple technique to dial in a cap on the tweeter to give a fairly smooth blend... assumming the woofer will reach up to the tweeters lower limit (it well could).
The woofer likely wants to see a larger box, you may need to go to aperiodic loading if the system Q in the bass is too high.
dave
You have managed to score one of the older all Alnico ones... i've only had ceramic versions of the woofer. If the alnico hasn't lost significant charge you have something special.
The midrange is unfortunately of the closed-back variety. Open back ones are are actually quite decent FRs.
The tweeter is as expected, bonus that it is alnico.
Looks like you can write off one pair of the supertweeters, too bad. These are quite special, and probably deserve to be used as a super-tweeter with a small modern FR that needs a bit of help at the top.
To expand on what has been posted earlier, you can prototype an enclosure, by fitting a new bffle over the old. I would start with a 2-way using a single tweeter & the 10". These tweeters can be XOed as low as 2.5k 1st order if you don't push too hard -- it could be made more robust on the bottom by placing it in a waveguide. The woofer should roll off fairly smoothly so there is a simple technique to dial in a cap on the tweeter to give a fairly smooth blend... assumming the woofer will reach up to the tweeters lower limit (it well could).
The woofer likely wants to see a larger box, you may need to go to aperiodic loading if the system Q in the bass is too high.
dave
Thanks for the helpful information on these, Dave. I've decided im going to keep the woofer, mid, tweeter configuration, in-line. Ill be using the same enclosure, and adding the new baffle, like mdocod suggested.
And would it be best to stick with the same type of wood as the original, particle board?
Not sure exactly what you mean here. Are you saying basically add a baffle which measures the same size as the one already in, just placing it over the current baffle? The "raised edge" being the stained wood?
And would it be best to stick with the same type of wood as the original, particle board?
That is where you would have to go if the woofer didn't reach up to the tweeter in my suggestion. Crossover will be much more complex (6 vrs 1 for a minimum number of parts)
For the new baffle, i recommend plywood.
dave
I don't suggest throwing any money at a different bass driver for these unless you wanted to go all out and replace all drivers so you can start from known baselines and build new x-overs and re-use the current boxes. Assuming the drivers you have still work, a re-arrangement of them will give you the most benefit for the least money. I am also concerned about the wall thickness on the rest of the box, a modern woofer might just tear the whole thing to shreds.
MDF or good Plywood (not chipboard, plywood) for front baffle. For simplicity sake, you could measure the depth of that front recess and buy that thickness, installing the new baffle right over the old one. Re-use and match up the woofer hole position, the old rear baffle will just have some holes in it that don't line up with the front baffle holes but that's not a problem IMO. The old velcro should be scrapped up so the new front baffle can be glued to the old one really well. A router should be used to flush mount the drivers as they were originally.
A nice plywood could be stained or painted to sort of match the rest of the box. The boxes would no longer have a front grill after this mod unless you wanted to rig something up. Most people here would advise against a grill of any kind but if the aesthetics bother you the old grills could probably be modified to be re-used here.
MDF or good Plywood (not chipboard, plywood) for front baffle. For simplicity sake, you could measure the depth of that front recess and buy that thickness, installing the new baffle right over the old one. Re-use and match up the woofer hole position, the old rear baffle will just have some holes in it that don't line up with the front baffle holes but that's not a problem IMO. The old velcro should be scrapped up so the new front baffle can be glued to the old one really well. A router should be used to flush mount the drivers as they were originally.
A nice plywood could be stained or painted to sort of match the rest of the box. The boxes would no longer have a front grill after this mod unless you wanted to rig something up. Most people here would advise against a grill of any kind but if the aesthetics bother you the old grills could probably be modified to be re-used here.
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