Yes, swimmingI used to live in Miami. Are you in Daytona or nearby Cape Canaveral Loren?
Here in Seattle, there is no much swimming, too cold
Ah, but you have the rain!
I am south of the Kennedy Space Center by about 25 miles.
A simple question for you guys, when the dimensions of the box are given, the important thing is the volume right? I mean, I can play around with the dimensions as far as the internal volume stays the same ( as far as I dont go crazy and do the depth for example barely the size of the speaker or something like that) ??
Also, let say I need a volume of 150 liters for the woofer as suggested and 15 or so liters for the mid, can I put the mid box and the tweeter inside the woofer box and add that volume to the measurements of the woofer box?
Or is it better to have a clean interior for the sound to not have strange reflections all over?
Also Thorsten, should I put any filling in this kind of woofer enclosure you are recommending?
I just want to know since I am trying to see how can I design an interesting cabinet.
Leo
Also, let say I need a volume of 150 liters for the woofer as suggested and 15 or so liters for the mid, can I put the mid box and the tweeter inside the woofer box and add that volume to the measurements of the woofer box?
Or is it better to have a clean interior for the sound to not have strange reflections all over?
Also Thorsten, should I put any filling in this kind of woofer enclosure you are recommending?
I just want to know since I am trying to see how can I design an interesting cabinet.
Leo
is it ported? IF it is then if you reduce the size you can still get the same tuning by modifying the port.
Volume is critical for the exact F3 point but you have to remember its not critical if the F3 between 36 and 40, etc.....Its hard to really tell the difference between a speaker with an F3 of 40 and F3 of 36.
You can even increase the volume internally as seen by the drivers with fibreglass stuffing.
Volume is critical for the exact F3 point but you have to remember its not critical if the F3 between 36 and 40, etc.....Its hard to really tell the difference between a speaker with an F3 of 40 and F3 of 36.
You can even increase the volume internally as seen by the drivers with fibreglass stuffing.
It's typical to build a box within a box. Just subtract the volume of the mid enclosure from the volume of the woofer box.
The net volume of the woofer box is just that. It is the volume after you subtract the volume displaced by the woofer, ports, cabinet braces, and crossover, etc.
When you are done building you should manually test for the Fb tuning of the box by sweeping the speaker with a signal generator and looking for the twin peaks in impedance. The lower dip between the two peaks is the box tuning frequency.
It is good to make the port tubes a little longer than called for and trim then down to get the final Fb right where you want it.
Yes, but there are limits that you can go before things fall apart and it starts having pipe resonances. Many people feel the Golden Ratio is the best. That ratio is 2.6 to 1.6 to 1.
The most important thing is that sufficient damping material to reduce box resonance and the box walls are stiff enough to resist vibrating at lower frequencies. Vance Dickson's The Loudspeaker Cookbook is a good resource on cabinet design techniques.
Just scale that to meet you volume needs.
Hi,
In principle - yes. However, there are reasons why I (and others) recommend golden ratio sizing the box. Each box dimension will have it's own slew of resonances, just like these in your room. With larger boxes these resonance's can become significant at quit low frequencies.
For example, an 80cm tall box will have resonances at with a halve wave resonance at 215Hz and a quarter wave resonance at 107Hz. Wherever there are dimensions that are even multiples of each others resonances are reinforced.
So keeping it to the golden ratio normally is a good idea.
Yes, you can. It is commonly done. Having independent boxes (especially below a "shroud" as I showed earlier) gives more flexibility though.
Yes, you need to try to absorb the higher resonances. So I would suggest a fairly thick layer of fibreglass or rockwool (for low cost - I personally use Basotect which is better for the inside of reflex boxes but very expensive) on all walls but the front and maybe some other loose fibre filling in the remaining cavity.
I can send you the cabinet drawings from German Audax Kit for reference, send me a PM with your e-mail.
Ciao T
In principle - yes. However, there are reasons why I (and others) recommend golden ratio sizing the box. Each box dimension will have it's own slew of resonances, just like these in your room. With larger boxes these resonance's can become significant at quit low frequencies.
For example, an 80cm tall box will have resonances at with a halve wave resonance at 215Hz and a quarter wave resonance at 107Hz. Wherever there are dimensions that are even multiples of each others resonances are reinforced.
So keeping it to the golden ratio normally is a good idea.
Yes, you can. It is commonly done. Having independent boxes (especially below a "shroud" as I showed earlier) gives more flexibility though.
Yes, you need to try to absorb the higher resonances. So I would suggest a fairly thick layer of fibreglass or rockwool (for low cost - I personally use Basotect which is better for the inside of reflex boxes but very expensive) on all walls but the front and maybe some other loose fibre filling in the remaining cavity.
I can send you the cabinet drawings from German Audax Kit for reference, send me a PM with your e-mail.
Ciao T
I am sorry, I may be wrong as some others pointed out because I thought most rock music didn't go that low but it seems it does so I am actually hearing more bass than I realized.
Also there seems to be a lot more bass guitar for example in the music I hear that I actually realized.
Now with the new speakers I will pay much more attention to all the instruments
And YES! I know the Black Widow can do GOOD
if used properly.Leo
I am sorry, I may be wrong as some others pointed out because I thought most rock music didn't go that low but it seems it does so I am actually hearing more bass than I realized.
Also there seems to be a lot more bass guitar for example in the music I hear that I actually realized.
Now with the new speakers I will pay much more attention to all the instruments
And YES! I know the Black Widow can do GOOD
Leo
It goes low, trust me...Bass guitars and drum kicks can go down below 40Hz easily.
I would hate for my system to sound like crap with AC/DC setting of explosions in "For those about to Rock"
You need a sub and bass management, your movies are going to extremely suck compared to anyone with a proper setup.
Hi Doug,
Kick Drums are commonly tuned around 80-100Hz, I have spend enough time recording them and miking them in live applications. Even Kettle drums do not really have their resonance that much lower.
Bass Guitar however can go very low. As I remearked earlier, the lowest E on the 4-String E-Bass is around 40Hz, which is why whenever possible I like to tune vented boxes at least as low as that (power handling at low e-bass notes).
However, E-Bass now also come in 5 and 6 String, where the lowest notes can be even lower.
I tend to use the Cannons in Tshaikovsky's 1812...
I believe we have already established that Leo does not have the equipment for that to be implemented at this point. So, how about being constructive for a change and telling him how he can get the best out of the gear he has, instead of telling him that it what he intends to do is "going to extremely suck" (which is BTW patently untrue - it is very likely to be much better than what he runs now)?
Ciao T
PS, the guy next door to my apartment has a "proper setup" with bass management, 15" Sub and all. The Sunday after a Saturday night where he pissed me off by playing his stuff way too late and way too loud I let my quite improper system rip with the finale from Telarc's 1812...
He was over in a few minutes complaining it was WAY TO LOUD. I told him why and we agreed to keep things more civil since, but he was actually majorly impressed by how my quite improper setup rendered the cannons and Muskets. All that with 92dB/W/m Speakers and 35W per channel Tube Amp in a room much larger than what Leo has.
Kick Drums are commonly tuned around 80-100Hz, I have spend enough time recording them and miking them in live applications. Even Kettle drums do not really have their resonance that much lower.
Bass Guitar however can go very low. As I remearked earlier, the lowest E on the 4-String E-Bass is around 40Hz, which is why whenever possible I like to tune vented boxes at least as low as that (power handling at low e-bass notes).
However, E-Bass now also come in 5 and 6 String, where the lowest notes can be even lower.
I would hate for my system to sound like crap with AC/DC setting of explosions in "For those about to Rock"
I tend to use the Cannons in Tshaikovsky's 1812...
I believe we have already established that Leo does not have the equipment for that to be implemented at this point. So, how about being constructive for a change and telling him how he can get the best out of the gear he has, instead of telling him that it what he intends to do is "going to extremely suck" (which is BTW patently untrue - it is very likely to be much better than what he runs now)?
Ciao T
PS, the guy next door to my apartment has a "proper setup" with bass management, 15" Sub and all. The Sunday after a Saturday night where he pissed me off by playing his stuff way too late and way too loud I let my quite improper system rip with the finale from Telarc's 1812...
He was over in a few minutes complaining it was WAY TO LOUD. I told him why and we agreed to keep things more civil since, but he was actually majorly impressed by how my quite improper setup rendered the cannons and Muskets. All that with 92dB/W/m Speakers and 35W per channel Tube Amp in a room much larger than what Leo has.
Im simply pointing out that his movies will suffer. He did post 60% movies so Im just reminding him that this design does not remotely help him with those movies. Of course maybe its not action type movies with no LFE content.
btw, 92dB speaker + 35Watt at 12 feet with 25dB peaks = DISTORTION! Of course you have tube amps so you are okay with that.
Yes Doug, unfortunately I dont have the money, time or experience to go with what you suggest for the moment. Maybe in the future
And it will be MUCH better than what I have now for sure.
Leo
Its all good...just making sure you realize you are missing a huge component for movies.
Maybe, interesting, I'm not doing any calculations, but I would point more to 95dB's ,what ever that is, or more, go look at the speakers from Peavey mentioned previously, what means ~double (half power) output.
Peavey SP-3G
Sound Pressure Level, 1 Watt, 1
Meter in Anechoic Environment:
Full-Range: 99 dB (2.8 V)
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Just did some research and asked a couple of drummers who also build subs about your statement..
A quote from one of them
"I'd say no, that's a little too high. A better figure would be a main "thump" energy in the 50-80hz area for common radio music.
It's sort of like saying that most 12's have an fs between 30-35hz, if you catch my drift."
The other comment from another reply was "What is the guy recording? Jaz with a small little drum".....
So we can split the difference from 30 to 80Hz and say 50Hz
A spectrum analyzer software is free we all have measuring tools so the simple solution is to post the OPs favorite music. We will then see how low it really goes.
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Ok Doug, I will actually do it easier, tell me how much lower will it be able to play or how much better it will handle the lower frequencies if I do it the way you propose.
And more importantly, how much more money will it cost me.
If I see that it gives a decent improvement and I can pay it, then we can consider it, if not then we will stay with the current design.
Leo
And more importantly, how much more money will it cost me.
If I see that it gives a decent improvement and I can pay it, then we can consider it, if not then we will stay with the current design.
Leo
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