Sorry Law,
yes, I missed it. But you are asking a rather strange question. You do realize that dipoles like this need eq, don't you? So if you are asking how low can I eq my subs down to, the answer is flat to 20hz. But you won't get very high SPL. Its all on the Linkwitz site under his max SPL calculator. Under normal listening they are eq'd flat down below 30hz, but if I need higher SPL, roll them off below 40hz and use a sealed sub below.
Cheers,
AJ
yes, I missed it. But you are asking a rather strange question. You do realize that dipoles like this need eq, don't you? So if you are asking how low can I eq my subs down to, the answer is flat to 20hz. But you won't get very high SPL. Its all on the Linkwitz site under his max SPL calculator. Under normal listening they are eq'd flat down below 30hz, but if I need higher SPL, roll them off below 40hz and use a sealed sub below.
Cheers,
AJ
AJinFLA said:
Hey Brian,
maybe if I covered the opening of the H with some grill cloth it wouldn't look quite so ugly to you.
It helps (barely).
AJ, I know you get questions about measurements a lot, but I'm going ask another anyway
: Does horn loading the tweeter help (noticeably) with off axis matching to the midrange. I mean, it should as the horn will give directivity around the right freq range. It's the only real problem I see in the Orion and I'm wondering how that worked out for you, qualitatively or quantitatively. Your design is the only dipole that has it that I've seen.Thanks,
-Brian
Hi AJ and Brian,
I had similar thoughts about directivity matching of a horn loaded tweeter to a dipole mid. With a monopole tweeter matched to a dipole mid though I see two contradictory requirements:
- directivity matched on the tweeter (horn) -> better forward firing integration, but due to the monopole nature of the tweeter, half the power-in-room output on the tweeter wrt the mid.
- regular omni tweeter -> some (slight?) directivity mismatch to dipole mid in XO region, but possibly more even power response in room (the tweeter making up for the lack of rear radiation through at the very least half-space radiation, up to the natural limit due to come size).
What are your thoughts on this reasoning?
I had similar thoughts about directivity matching of a horn loaded tweeter to a dipole mid. With a monopole tweeter matched to a dipole mid though I see two contradictory requirements:
- directivity matched on the tweeter (horn) -> better forward firing integration, but due to the monopole nature of the tweeter, half the power-in-room output on the tweeter wrt the mid.
- regular omni tweeter -> some (slight?) directivity mismatch to dipole mid in XO region, but possibly more even power response in room (the tweeter making up for the lack of rear radiation through at the very least half-space radiation, up to the natural limit due to come size).
What are your thoughts on this reasoning?
I'm a little late coming into this thread but I wanted to comment about bass performance.
Like AJ, I went with 12" woofers to make sure I had the ample headroom for dipole bass.
I've also read that dipoles are often augmented by monopole subs for the lowest frequencies. I like bass but I haven't been motivated to try and integrate a sub. The bass performance is really good.
This is pink noise of my woofers with only a 26Hz LP filter in a traditional H-frame with mic at listening position. Purple line is 1/24 octave, blue is the same data smoothed to 1/6 octave. I think that 1k spike is the signature of the H-frame
Like AJ, I went with 12" woofers to make sure I had the ample headroom for dipole bass.
I've also read that dipoles are often augmented by monopole subs for the lowest frequencies. I like bass but I haven't been motivated to try and integrate a sub. The bass performance is really good.
This is pink noise of my woofers with only a 26Hz LP filter in a traditional H-frame with mic at listening position. Purple line is 1/24 octave, blue is the same data smoothed to 1/6 octave. I think that 1k spike is the signature of the H-frame
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Re: 2-way dipole journey with Seas W22EX
I have been waiting not very patiently for a pair of 27TBFCG's for over 2 months now.... I have completed about 90% of my speakers but can't finish them without the ferkin tweeters... GGGRRRRR......
Anyway, enough is enough so I have just ordered some from http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3386 - they are a bit more expensive at £72 deilvered for the pair but delivery is 1-2 days apparently...
Vikash said:
I have been waiting not very patiently for a pair of 27TBFCG's for over 2 months now.... I have completed about 90% of my speakers but can't finish them without the ferkin tweeters... GGGRRRRR......
Anyway, enough is enough so I have just ordered some from http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Product.asp?Product_ID=3386 - they are a bit more expensive at £72 deilvered for the pair but delivery is 1-2 days apparently...
Re: Re: 2-way dipole journey with Seas W22EX
Sorry to hear your having to wait yet again for drivers It seems to me like Wilmslow need to press harder on Seas to deliver. I too had a wait of around 2 weeks when I special ordered the Seas L22-RNX4/P's but it was hardly two months and I was notified it was a special order item and not carried in stock.
BMM are very decent, Jean, the guy who runs it helped me out a great deal with any queries or problems I had with the PSU's I bought from him. The workmanship is impeccable on them.
Speedy delivery too.
quickshift said:
Sorry to hear your having to wait yet again for drivers
It seems to me like Wilmslow need to press harder on Seas to deliver. I too had a wait of around 2 weeks when I special ordered the Seas L22-RNX4/P's but it was hardly two months and I was notified it was a special order item and not carried in stock.BMM are very decent, Jean, the guy who runs it helped me out a great deal with any queries or problems I had with the PSU's I bought from him. The workmanship is impeccable on them.
Speedy delivery too.
Cheers Ant.
I haven't been very lucky with the drivers for this project so far.
The mids took 5 weeks to arrive...
BMM seem to carry everything Wilmslow do and more so I'll use them I reckon if Wilmslow can't ship from stock. They cost a few quid more including delivery but I'd rather get the kit quickly.
I'm pleased you can recommend BMM, hopefully I'm nearly there now...
This project is getting quite international... Wood from Brazil, crossover components from Germany, Drivers from Holland...
Hope I have done my sums right....
I haven't been very lucky with the drivers for this project so far.
The mids took 5 weeks to arrive...
BMM seem to carry everything Wilmslow do and more so I'll use them I reckon if Wilmslow can't ship from stock. They cost a few quid more including delivery but I'd rather get the kit quickly.
I'm pleased you can recommend BMM, hopefully I'm nearly there now...
This project is getting quite international... Wood from Brazil, crossover components from Germany, Drivers from Holland...
Hope I have done my sums right....
MBK>
I had similar thoughts about directivity matching of a horn loaded tweeter to a dipole mid. With a monopole tweeter matched to a dipole mid though I see two contradictory requirements:
- directivity matched on the tweeter (horn) -> better forward firing integration, but due to the monopole nature of the tweeter, half the power-in-room output on the tweeter wrt the mid.
- regular omni tweeter -> some (slight?) directivity mismatch to dipole mid in XO region, but possibly more even power response in room (the tweeter making up for the lack of rear radiation through at the very least half-space radiation, up to the natural limit due to come size).
What are your thoughts on this reasoning?
Hi MBK,
there are many more factors involved, such as the acoustic low pass formed by the basket structure, reducing the rear output (at XO) and hence the total power radiated.
Keep in mind that I built mine specifically for my room, where there is room treatment to absorb some of tthe rear wave (much to the delight of my neighbors). SL's room is quite different from mine. He recommends (and rightly so) no room treatment (he probably doesn't have to worry about the neighbors like me). So he favors the latter of your statements.
So the answer could depend on how you plan to use it in room IMHO.
Cheers,
AJ
I had similar thoughts about directivity matching of a horn loaded tweeter to a dipole mid. With a monopole tweeter matched to a dipole mid though I see two contradictory requirements:
- directivity matched on the tweeter (horn) -> better forward firing integration, but due to the monopole nature of the tweeter, half the power-in-room output on the tweeter wrt the mid.
- regular omni tweeter -> some (slight?) directivity mismatch to dipole mid in XO region, but possibly more even power response in room (the tweeter making up for the lack of rear radiation through at the very least half-space radiation, up to the natural limit due to come size).
What are your thoughts on this reasoning?
Hi MBK,
there are many more factors involved, such as the acoustic low pass formed by the basket structure, reducing the rear output (at XO) and hence the total power radiated.
Keep in mind that I built mine specifically for my room, where there is room treatment to absorb some of tthe rear wave (much to the delight of my neighbors). SL's room is quite different from mine. He recommends (and rightly so) no room treatment (he probably doesn't have to worry about the neighbors like me). So he favors the latter of your statements.
So the answer could depend on how you plan to use it in room IMHO.
Cheers,
AJ
Nuuk said:
You guys don't know how lucky you are!(But it was worth the wait!)
You've obviously got the patience of a saint!
I nearly chewed my arm off waiting a few weeks for my ATC to be built... but a year!
How much for the rebuild and who did you trust to do it?
I had to bump this previous post since maybe Shin missed it
Hi Shin,
you perked my interest - until I saw the price . Oh my.
So let me ask you this. Have you modeled a dipole midbass panel, then compared it to the real world measurements of the actual completed panel? Does LEAP require you to make measurements of the drivers rear radiation so that the data can be imported?
Since the rear structure of each (different) driver forms a complex low pass filter, that significantly impacts the front - and hence total radiated power, how does LEAP account for this?
I have used other programs and found none to be very accurate.
I would be very curious to know how LEAP accomplishes this.
Thanx in advance.
Cheers
AJ
Hi Shin,
you perked my interest - until I saw the price . Oh my.
So let me ask you this. Have you modeled a dipole midbass panel, then compared it to the real world measurements of the actual completed panel? Does LEAP require you to make measurements of the drivers rear radiation so that the data can be imported?
Since the rear structure of each (different) driver forms a complex low pass filter, that significantly impacts the front - and hence total radiated power, how does LEAP account for this?
I have used other programs and found none to be very accurate.
I would be very curious to know how LEAP accomplishes this.
Thanx in advance.
Cheers
AJ
Nuuk said:
You guys don't know how lucky you are!
Lucky!!!
I work in central London where everything gets done yesterday and if it doesn't, people go on the "first against the wall when the revolution comes" list...
The 5 weeks took ages and when the box finally arrived, there were no tweeters
Peerless had moved their production to a new factory though to be fair.It's so annoying to have the cabs sitting about, the crossovers done, the front baffles done and not being able to put it all together and listen.
It's all only 2 hours from being finished Anway, Wilmslow are pretty good at getting stuff out quickly from stock - never had an issue with them before.
Your 201's must be fab for it to be worth waiting a year.
Starting measuring T/S params today. Tried with an amp plugged into the Wallin jig aiming for 2.8vrms but I couldn't get near the smooth impedance measurement of my unamplified setup.
I think Shin mentioned that he'd had about 20 hours play on them so probably not too suprising that specs are still quite out a bit. Both churning out a 15Hz tone now, and here's a cool pic in the meantime...
I think Shin mentioned that he'd had about 20 hours play on them so probably not too suprising that specs are still quite out a bit. Both churning out a 15Hz tone now, and here's a cool pic in the meantime...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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