10" two way

[John_E_Janowitz]

Though, I dont know why, but I never experience much excursion, mostly hardly any at all

Then you need to play louder.

John

 

[infinia]

John

For wide dispersion goals i.e. flat flange dome tweeters in a 3way design using normal cone drivers.
Isn't it better to let a higher Le woofer be a woofer i.e. limit upper BW to below 300Hz? In this case Le and it's variations will be absorbed or minimized by the large series crossover inductor.

On a side note
Have you seen a correlation between Le and say maybe 30 deg. or more offaxis response of a 10" woofer? Any other thing you can say about Le and freq response would be appreciated.

 

[GOWA]

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_258&products_id=817

I like how this driver can be used without a crossover. The natural roll off works for me. Just blend an appropriate tweeter and your done. I wish it was 92 or 93 db tho.

Don't you think it's a bit short on power handling?

 

[MisterTwister]

John, but how do you know that seas's 3mh inductance is not constant throughout it's coil travel? I think we can't tell it without klippel measurements. Or high inductance automatically tells us that it's not constant?

 

[John_E_Janowitz]

John, but how do you know that seas's 3mh inductance is not constant throughout it's coil travel? I think we can't tell it without klippel measurements. Or high inductance automatically tells us that it's not constant?

Any inductance will change with excursion. The only way to avoid this is to keep the "core" the same. As the driver comes forward the windings in the coil go past the end of the pole piece unless the pole is largely extended, which in the case of the seas it is not. As windings get past the end of the pole, the core is becoming aircore and the inductance changes. The same goes for the steel on the outside of the coil. As the coil is centered in the gap it has a given amount of steel next to it on the outside. As the coil travels and the bottom of the coil goes up into the gap, again the amount of steel next to it is changing as well. The only way to truly correct this is to make it act like an aircore at all points.

The copper sleeve on the pole essentially does this. "With this permanently mounted highly conductive layer, any flux movement creates large currents (Eddy Currents) that can now short themselves out. Rather, the magnetic flux lines are electrically shorted to their original location and cannot move now. Hence the devices used for this are called Shorted Turns or Faraday Rings. The benefit is a great reduction of distortion and overall inductance of the driver, as well as linear inductance throughout the stroke."

John

 

[johnmark]

Getting back on tract maybe crossing to a 10" woofer around 1200hz might be better accomplished with a small array of tweeters. Say 3.
Think I saw an M&K monitor once that did this. Might power taper the outside 2 tweeters and lowpass them so they were helping more with the upper mid range, sort of an MTM using tweeters?
I think 3 relatively inexpensve tweeters might work then for the 1200hz crossover.

 

[crazyhub]

If I were going to use a 10" in a 2-way I would use a 2" wide band crossed 800-1000Hz to minimize cones break-up distortions and directivity losses; RLC certainly needed with the CA26RE4X IMO.

 

[nigelwright7557]

I always liked the sound of a 10" two way for classic rock and these drivers might make a nice larger stand mount/ bookshelf type speaker.
Maybe a variovent type enclosure to keep volume reasonable.

I use a 4 by 10 inch cabinet for my rock guitar.

I also use it on a mobile disco in conjunction with a 18 inch bass cabinet.

The guitar benefits from a good midrange loudspeaker box.

 

[col]

I recently completed these:

They are based on Earl Geddes Nathan design but built with much cheaper components. Namely, B&C DE10-8 compression driver, Dayton HR10RW waveguide, Selenium ADM25-25 adapter, Eminence Beta 10a. Gedlee HOMless Foam Plugs.

I am using a ESP P09b electronic crossover, crossing at 2.2khz but am about to change that to 1.8khz. They are already sounding very nice. Just tinkering and doing the final touches now

col.

 

[infinia]

Getting back on tract maybe crossing to a 10" woofer around 1200hz might be better accomplished with a small array of tweeters. Say 3.
Think I saw an M&K monitor once that did this. Might power taper the outside 2 tweeters and lowpass them so they were helping more with the upper mid range, sort of an MTM using tweeters?
I think 3 relatively inexpensve tweeters might work then for the 1200hz crossover.

Not at 1.2KHz!... and if done properly at 1.7KHz or so, would require complex Xover circuitry. IMO adding more cheaper tweeters makes issues much worse.
What is your expectation for a 10" 2 way other than desired Xover point? Are you going to do the Xover design for your creation?

If I were going to use a 10" in a 2-way I would use a 2" wide band crossed 800-1000Hz to minimize cones break-up distortions and directivity losses; RLC certainly needed with the CA26RE4X IMO.

This is an option that could yield better results than most suggestions depending on it's final application. But sensitivity would most probably end up much lower to match a modern extended response 2" or 3" cone.

 

[Moondog55]

10 inch two ways have always been popular for Rocknroll, and way back Wharfdale used 10inch as a midrange with 3inch tweeters.
Sometimes I think we are too particular about slopes and off axis performance, most of us listen on-axis and if willing to settle for less than perfection this set-up workd OK, even crossed at 3000 or higher ( depending on HF performance of the woofer of course ).

 

[John_E_Janowitz]

There are some things to be said for off axis response and the affect it has of the perceived sound on axis as well. The room has a lot to do with this. For most practical purposes though a 10" 2-way or even a 12" or 15" can work well. The difficulty is finding a driver that can play high enough cleanly. This doesn't mean just to the Xover point, but for several octaves above. IMO if the cone has any breakup you want to get it a bare minimum 24dB down or preferably 48dB down. So that means if you cross at 1KHz with 24dB slope, you want clean response with no breakup or resonance to 4KHz or higher. This is where the difficulty comes in with most 10" drivers not sounding good in these kind of applications.

Duke at AudioKinesis has a good example of a 2way using a 12" and waveguide here. The same can be done with a 10" and waveguide.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=60103.0

John

 

[Moondog55]

True, but in a couple of cases I have settled for 1.5 or even 1 octaves with drivers that had relatively smooth roll-offs, I miss some of the old Tandy drivers for that reason, perhaps not the best quality drivers but easy to work with.
Not relevant to this discussion but imagine a 10 inch with a FR similar to the Vifa P13

 

[crazyhub]

This is an option that could yield better results than most suggestions depending on it's final application. But sensitivity would most probably end up much lower to match a modern extended response 2" or 3" cone.

Sure! should require at least 88db/1w/1m for the 2"...difficult to find...

 

[grantnsw]

CA26RE4X versus....

Hi,

bumping an old thread,

that SeAS CA26RE4X looks good for a 1500Hz xo but I'm wondering about my pair of:

http://www.sea.vg/vifa/P25WO-00-08.pdf

Le is lower, Fs is the same, Vas is similar, the response sounds great in the BR box. But I was advised years ago that a 10inch woofer won't work in a 2way? A great big crossover hole. But:

A 27TDFC will cross 2nd electrical at 1500Hz so my P25's seem ok for a 10" 2way? ideas?

thanks, Grant

 

[adejacko]

Hi Grant. Did you build them?