Bought a pair of these Dutch Masters from the local classifieds and, well, discerning audiophools best look away now, I stuck them in the worst enclosures thinkable. That's right, just some cardboard removal boxes. Yes, it's a bit like drinking a vintage Claret from a plastic cup (something I may or may not have done in the past...), but cheap and cheerful fun.
IMG_7688 by ctjr, on Flickr
IMG_7690 by ctjr, on Flickr
The verdict? These drivers have a very special sound all of their own: excellent drivers, not exactly neutral sounding but very nice for the stuff I like to listen to (and more besides). The soundstage is huge, the imaging is good too and, surprisingly, the speakers are hard to locate when listening with closed eyes. These speakers have no right to sound this good under these circumstances, yet here we are. The cardboard boxes act like a slightly undersized leaky box (just like many historical enclosures were build for these drivers); a very promising direction to look when it's time to build them some proper cabs
Bass, obviously, is not earth-shaking, but with floor coupling and room modes in a square 4x4 m, the bass is very, very acceptable. I ran a few frequency sweeps and the drivers comes in at around 40-45-ish (just like it says on the tin) and already produces quite a credible sound at 60hz. Nothing earth-shaking, but then again, that's neither useful nor desirable in a small city apartment build before sound proofing was a thing.
Anyway, lots of interesting possibilities with these drivers, they're definitely keepers.
IMG_7688 by ctjr, on Flickr
IMG_7690 by ctjr, on FlickrThe verdict? These drivers have a very special sound all of their own: excellent drivers, not exactly neutral sounding but very nice for the stuff I like to listen to (and more besides). The soundstage is huge, the imaging is good too and, surprisingly, the speakers are hard to locate when listening with closed eyes. These speakers have no right to sound this good under these circumstances, yet here we are. The cardboard boxes act like a slightly undersized leaky box (just like many historical enclosures were build for these drivers); a very promising direction to look when it's time to build them some proper cabs
Bass, obviously, is not earth-shaking, but with floor coupling and room modes in a square 4x4 m, the bass is very, very acceptable. I ran a few frequency sweeps and the drivers comes in at around 40-45-ish (just like it says on the tin) and already produces quite a credible sound at 60hz. Nothing earth-shaking, but then again, that's neither useful nor desirable in a small city apartment build before sound proofing was a thing.
Anyway, lots of interesting possibilities with these drivers, they're definitely keepers.
Current front runner is a Briggs-style slotted cabinet; slightly bigger volume than these happy little disasters, and aperiodic too. Out of all the pre-cooked enclosures gathered below I like that solution the best, in terms of size and sound characteristics. Should deliver a healthy 50hz, which is good enough for my situation.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/120191494/Applications-Philips-9710-m
The 9710 do have some nice qualities. However, the +10db above 2 kHz makes the on axis listening tough. A wide baffle and having the axis crossing well in front of the listener might work.
I built the Decca Corner Horn (a Voigt pipe) and here with the sound bouncing of the walls it the 9710 sound good. A bass reflex was bad and a Lowther Accousta 115 cabinet was terrible.
I built the Decca Corner Horn (a Voigt pipe) and here with the sound bouncing of the walls it the 9710 sound good. A bass reflex was bad and a Lowther Accousta 115 cabinet was terrible.
Stromberg-Carlson made horrid looking cabinets with Celotex walls and roofing paper covering - sound quality was very good. There was a thin decorative plywood shell to hide the Celotex cabinet.
ah - jawih - that looks like the R-J with a shorter path vent formed by the speaker's frame.
Is there a scalable pattern for the "lemon" - shaped aperture ?
here's my Slimline R-J 12's aperture and vent - its pretty short too. I also have the regular R-J 15 cabinet
http://i.imgur.com/6QFbGJ9.jpg
"IG" at Audioasylum built these - maybe a bit too small with only about 1 cubic foot rear chamber - a Karlson 12 or maybe a Karlsonator should be good
one case of measured parameters - looks good
http://rutcho.com/speaker_drivers/philips_9710m_01/philips_9710m_01.html
ah - jawih - that looks like the R-J with a shorter path vent formed by the speaker's frame.
Is there a scalable pattern for the "lemon" - shaped aperture ?
here's my Slimline R-J 12's aperture and vent - its pretty short too. I also have the regular R-J 15 cabinet
http://i.imgur.com/6QFbGJ9.jpg
"IG" at Audioasylum built these - maybe a bit too small with only about 1 cubic foot rear chamber - a Karlson 12 or maybe a Karlsonator should be good
one case of measured parameters - looks good
http://rutcho.com/speaker_drivers/philips_9710m_01/philips_9710m_01.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Yes, it's in the booklet. They made me think of the "baffle compensée"-enclosure, as recommended by Supravox. An interesting design, for sure - both the "Muiderkring" enclosure and the Supravox are 35 litres, but the Dutch design dispenses with the suprabaffle. However, I'd like not to use a bass reflex construction this time, mainly to try something new compared to my last build.
Anyway, +1 on the "box of wine" enclosure. I've done worse (Cat Litter boxes are stout cardboard!)thanks, Bolly! And good thing you found the matching amp too.
For the permanent enclosures, I'm btw contemplating an Onken build. I still have to work out the final dimensions; if I take the Onkens literally as a form of bass reflex, I could do a 35 litre box, but from the historic examples (like the Philips Monitor-8) or the calculations made by scottmoose elsewhere on this forum, the box would end up much bigger (scott quotes 66 litres). Back to the lab!
For the permanent enclosures, I'm btw contemplating an Onken build. I still have to work out the final dimensions; if I take the Onkens literally as a form of bass reflex, I could do a 35 litre box, but from the historic examples (like the Philips Monitor-8) or the calculations made by scottmoose elsewhere on this forum, the box would end up much bigger (scott quotes 66 litres). Back to the lab!
I love my AD9710 very much. I put them in a TQWT, the build was my first so it has some flaws in it but still it sounds very good.
In search for improvement I have build, read and listened as many things as I could. I looked at everything from SABA res-cabinets to the Sonab enclosure I could find.
Over on the LencoHeaven forum somebody took the effort to build the cabinets advised by Philips in the papers "Luidsprekerbehuizing voor zelfbouw". He ended up by making the Briggs cabinet into a Bass Reflex monitor. But he wishes to build a TQWT...
So I wil keep my doggy TQWT build... I love it. In the near future I will rebuild them with slightly different sizes (I lost the drawing...) But in the attachment is the on I build.
R.
In search for improvement I have build, read and listened as many things as I could. I looked at everything from SABA res-cabinets to the Sonab enclosure I could find.
Over on the LencoHeaven forum somebody took the effort to build the cabinets advised by Philips in the papers "Luidsprekerbehuizing voor zelfbouw". He ended up by making the Briggs cabinet into a Bass Reflex monitor. But he wishes to build a TQWT...
So I wil keep my doggy TQWT build... I love it. In the near future I will rebuild them with slightly different sizes (I lost the drawing...) But in the attachment is the on I build.
R.
Attachments
Nice TQWT! Unfortunately, due to size/weight concerns I can't really go that route.
I've seen those builds at the Lencoheaven forum, lots of interesting data points and a very divided opinion on the Briggs distributed port - as there are on the Reso's. I'd like some reso's but I'm only a beginning woodworker and I'm a little put off by the fact that even an experienced builder like Troels Gravesen (with a great workshop) had trouble putting them together.
So, a smallish Onken seems to be a good way to go.
I've seen those builds at the Lencoheaven forum, lots of interesting data points and a very divided opinion on the Briggs distributed port - as there are on the Reso's. I'd like some reso's but I'm only a beginning woodworker and I'm a little put off by the fact that even an experienced builder like Troels Gravesen (with a great workshop) had trouble putting them together.
So, a smallish Onken seems to be a good way to go.
The TQWT is easy to build, unfortunatly that the are to big.
Well the Onken would be interesting. I don't no why but I would like to build a monitor/bookshelf cabinet for the AD9710, I have a very simple design lying somewhere from Philips which is not build by the guy at Lenco Heaven.
R.
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