Greetings everyone, first I'd like to start this post expressing my appreciation towards the intense amount of knowledge within this forum. And I couldn't be more thankful for such a place to exist, now with that said I've definitely found my self lost amongst some topics that arem relative to the guidance I particularly need but not clear enough to what I want. Basically avoiding investing into something me and a few partners have had dreams about to only have our set up not meet our hopes.
To cut to the point, I have goals for what I want to commit to, I'm not a newbie when it comes to sound itself, but fairly new to bin design and curtailing a set up to what I'm looking for so please excuse some generalizations I may make through out this post.
Sharing from what I've experienced as listener, hoping to resonate with someone experienced as a designer. I'm committing a decent budget between $5,000 to $10,000, not particularly just for subwoofers but also to design a (fairly) portable setup for bass music from dubstep to dance and experiment/unique edm sounds (I.e. tipper), so I'm aware that I need to build sub bins capable of hitting 30hz to 100hz. I'm aiming to produce sound for at least 100 to 200 people. For my setup I'd want it to be capable of carrying those tones with pretty earthquakey bass outdoors for that range of people (if possible with what I specified so far) within reasonable distance for that volume. I already have investments into generators of 8700 watts, multiple too. But I've been looking into the differences between tapped horns, folded horns, front loaded horns, etc. and I'm experiencing a hard time deciding on a design that would be suitable for what I need as well as proper drivers and all that. I'd be eternally thankful if I could be given some insight on what I should be specifically researching into as time isn't a factor right now. I can absolutely supply anymore info that need be necessary as well as open to references from links of other forum posts, website, and (my favorite) personal experiences from your own journey.
Cheers!
To cut to the point, I have goals for what I want to commit to, I'm not a newbie when it comes to sound itself, but fairly new to bin design and curtailing a set up to what I'm looking for so please excuse some generalizations I may make through out this post.
Sharing from what I've experienced as listener, hoping to resonate with someone experienced as a designer. I'm committing a decent budget between $5,000 to $10,000, not particularly just for subwoofers but also to design a (fairly) portable setup for bass music from dubstep to dance and experiment/unique edm sounds (I.e. tipper), so I'm aware that I need to build sub bins capable of hitting 30hz to 100hz. I'm aiming to produce sound for at least 100 to 200 people. For my setup I'd want it to be capable of carrying those tones with pretty earthquakey bass outdoors for that range of people (if possible with what I specified so far) within reasonable distance for that volume. I already have investments into generators of 8700 watts, multiple too. But I've been looking into the differences between tapped horns, folded horns, front loaded horns, etc. and I'm experiencing a hard time deciding on a design that would be suitable for what I need as well as proper drivers and all that. I'd be eternally thankful if I could be given some insight on what I should be specifically researching into as time isn't a factor right now. I can absolutely supply anymore info that need be necessary as well as open to references from links of other forum posts, website, and (my favorite) personal experiences from your own journey.
Cheers!
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Hoping its not lame to kinda bump myself but I still definitely wanted to keep my journey updated in case anyone could help me. So far for the sub cabs I've been reading into designs and plans and what i require for my setup. I'm thinking about a keystone with lab12s and with a proper build able to achieve the SPL in looking for especially in the the lows. And I imagine a few of these put together will really pack the punch I'm looking for paired with some good mid top plans. I was originally looking into the BFM designs and as neat as bill makes it look on paper it really just looks like he's trying to sell the design. Has anyone heard any good BFM tubas or titans that would be comparable to the key stone plans? I don't particularly know what drivers are suitable for BFMs and what the plans are really tuned for but i have listened to some decent 39s loaded with jbl gto1014's but I don't really know if those drivers are really suitable for loudspeaker applications. Some input would be really appreciated, thanks.
I'll bite. I built a Keystone (KS) as my first foray into DIY and am hooked! I spent years on the fence… I had similar goals. You might seriously underestimate the power of these DIY boxes… Pretty much all the well known designs around here trounce typical Guitar Center type stuff. Dare I give a broad generalization, but I think a pair of KS will ROCK 200 people. 4 hits 140db and I would wager that would be “earthquaky” but maybe only “thundery” to some hardcore bass heads.
That said, it is basically a mid 30hz box. You will lose much portability to get true 30hz and in my opinion it is just not worth it. Time to study Hoffman’s law and make your choices. Hoffman's Iron Law - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
My suggestion to you is build one and check it out. I would stick to the B&C 18SW100. Flatter response and saves you 20+lbs per cab… In the interest of full disclosure I made a Keystone “Lite” as I call it. Used the Lab15-4 I grabbed for $120. At the time I didn’t really have 100% faith in DIY and I am a pretty good wooddorker… Since that build, I have a level of confidence to invest in a top end driver. Time to talk about your skill level. If you are handy and have a decent set of tools, you’ll be fine. If this is first project, it might be tough… Also heads up, you need some processing to high pass the sub.
For tops you absolutely must check out Art’s Syntripp. It is not an easy build but at this point probably the best DIY top there is. Plans are in the works…
That said, it is basically a mid 30hz box. You will lose much portability to get true 30hz and in my opinion it is just not worth it. Time to study Hoffman’s law and make your choices. Hoffman's Iron Law - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
My suggestion to you is build one and check it out. I would stick to the B&C 18SW100. Flatter response and saves you 20+lbs per cab… In the interest of full disclosure I made a Keystone “Lite” as I call it. Used the Lab15-4 I grabbed for $120. At the time I didn’t really have 100% faith in DIY and I am a pretty good wooddorker… Since that build, I have a level of confidence to invest in a top end driver. Time to talk about your skill level. If you are handy and have a decent set of tools, you’ll be fine. If this is first project, it might be tough… Also heads up, you need some processing to high pass the sub.
For tops you absolutely must check out Art’s Syntripp. It is not an easy build but at this point probably the best DIY top there is. Plans are in the works…
Hey mayolitfam,
Just an observation (trying to help).
Try breakdown your post into really specific bullet points.
If it's easy to read you might get more responses?
Best of luck
Hey brother thanks for the tip, because you're absolutely right this post is definitely an eye sore, completely had it in paragraph form and indented and after both posts I had realized I hadn't used the codes in order to make it look pretty. Definitely will re edit my post when I get the appropriate time to today.
Brother, yes this is exactly the response I was looking for, thank you!
I'm definitely set on constructing myself some keystones after reading Arts post and it being filled with some great info.
Now down to the drivers, I was originally considering the 2xLab12 plans especially after looking at the graphs he had attached to the thread. These really look efficient on paper from output to costs. I'm not entirely stressing reaching 30hz because you're absolutely right, I will definitely read into Hoffman's law and I really appreciate that link you tossed me.
Overall it seems more cost effective and efficient to go with building two 18s instead of buying 4 lab12s. And in regards to handyness I'm not top wood worker but I have access to all the tools and equipment I could need. By day in an industrial electrician so I'm confident in my aptitude and competence to handle the work with out a doubt.
As a side note, my partner did just dive into copping two JBL EON615s and 618s which are still some quality active speakers. I wrote that down and out on paper and compared it side by side to a 2xLAB12 KS cab and I was shocked st how efficient for the value the KS is, leaving me beyond stoked to get to work after some more number crunching and planning. But man thank you again for your response, ill post updates as I get to work for anyone that's following.
I'm definitely set on constructing myself some keystones after reading Arts post and it being filled with some great info.
Now down to the drivers, I was originally considering the 2xLab12 plans especially after looking at the graphs he had attached to the thread. These really look efficient on paper from output to costs. I'm not entirely stressing reaching 30hz because you're absolutely right, I will definitely read into Hoffman's law and I really appreciate that link you tossed me.
Overall it seems more cost effective and efficient to go with building two 18s instead of buying 4 lab12s. And in regards to handyness I'm not top wood worker but I have access to all the tools and equipment I could need. By day in an industrial electrician so I'm confident in my aptitude and competence to handle the work with out a doubt.
As a side note, my partner did just dive into copping two JBL EON615s and 618s which are still some quality active speakers. I wrote that down and out on paper and compared it side by side to a 2xLAB12 KS cab and I was shocked st how efficient for the value the KS is, leaving me beyond stoked to get to work after some more number crunching and planning. But man thank you again for your response, ill post updates as I get to work for anyone that's following.
Glad I could help. My KS tips thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ng-18-15-12-inch-speakers-38.html#post4113476
There are also CAD plans and a cutsheet in there somewhere
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ng-18-15-12-inch-speakers-38.html#post4113476
There are also CAD plans and a cutsheet in there somewhere
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ng-18-15-12-inch-speakers-38.html#post4113476
many in that scene here with their own sound system use 4 way dub soundsystem style boxes (the specific build speakers for the original music where dubstep is based on), but build for more hifi sounding. So basicly scoops (aka backloaded horns) but sometimes also folded horns and rarely a tapped horn for sub, HD horns or ported boxes for kicks (midbass), and MT122's for the mid and top. Those plans are all over the web if you want to do the same.
I would use tapped horns for sub (as sub is important and i believe a tapped horn is the best in this department) and a decent 2 way or 3 way pa-style speaker for tops. Many possibilities are availeble. For drivers i would look at B&C for sub and bass, and beyma or B&C for tops. Dub soundsystems use mostly Precision Devices drivers, but they are not that good sounding. Idem with the piezo tweeters often used on dub sound systems.
you don't need the analog preamp (crossover/mixer combo) of a dub soundystem, any decent processor & dj mixer can do the job also and is much more usefull for dubstep & co
I would use tapped horns for sub (as sub is important and i believe a tapped horn is the best in this department) and a decent 2 way or 3 way pa-style speaker for tops. Many possibilities are availeble. For drivers i would look at B&C for sub and bass, and beyma or B&C for tops. Dub soundsystems use mostly Precision Devices drivers, but they are not that good sounding. Idem with the piezo tweeters often used on dub sound systems.
you don't need the analog preamp (crossover/mixer combo) of a dub soundystem, any decent processor & dj mixer can do the job also and is much more usefull for dubstep & co
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Glad I could help. My KS tips thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ng-18-15-12-inch-speakers-38.html#post4113476
There are also CAD plans and a cutsheet in there somewhere
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...ng-18-15-12-inch-speakers-38.html#post4113476
Hey Zwillee thanks again for the links, I've nearly read that entire thread on top of finishing reading the Syntripp thread today which was filled with an absolutely incredible amount of history, information, documentation, and probably the best collaborative thread I have read in some time.
After delving into all that I'm just racking up my shopping list and getting set on what I want to put in the keystones and Syntripp s as well as choosing the proper amplifier at this point and debating on whether to go with a separate EQ, limiter, compressor and such or going with a DSP and amp. At this point in time I'm going to get ready to order for a test rig with just building one key stone with a B&W 18SW100 paired with one Syntripp loaded with the 10CL51s and a eminence n314t-8. On top of that potentially settling with an inuke 6000 dsp which should be more than enough power at this time.
In regards to the complexity of the Syntripp build I believe its absolutely manageable after reading Finn and Jenny's journies and all the amazing documentation provided I may end up using her 3d models but at the same time since ill have access to some cnc equipment, 3d printers and laser scanners ill add in laser scans of exact dimensions for the 10CLs for further 3d printing to aid in modelling and testing designs.
After delving into all that I'm just racking up my shopping list and getting set on what I want to put in the keystones and Syntripp s as well as choosing the proper amplifier at this point and debating on whether to go with a separate EQ, limiter, compressor and such or going with a DSP and amp. At this point in time I'm going to get ready to order for a test rig with just building one key stone with a B&W 18SW100 paired with one Syntripp loaded with the 10CL51s and a eminence n314t-8. On top of that potentially settling with an inuke 6000 dsp which should be more than enough power at this time.
In regards to the complexity of the Syntripp build I believe its absolutely manageable after reading Finn and Jenny's journies and all the amazing documentation provided I may end up using her 3d models but at the same time since ill have access to some cnc equipment, 3d printers and laser scanners ill add in laser scans of exact dimensions for the 10CLs for further 3d printing to aid in modelling and testing designs.
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