John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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"investing" for those whose first language is not English: In this context, it is putting time, money, and general learning to make the best hi fi reproduction in our homes possible, still believing that we have further to go to make the best sound reproduction possible.
For example, I added an ultra tweeter pair to my Wilson Sashas recently. Retail cost, with triode tube amp is about $5000. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual who has to listen to it. For me, it is worth it.
IF I had been given the MK 2 version of the Wilson Sasha speaker, I might have been happy enough to forgo this upgrade. The new MK2 tweeter is really better.
 
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Like my 3 "dark side of the moons" they are:

-1. Original 16 bit (from a new CD - FLAC).

-2 " improved" 44K remaster. 16bit with a lower noise floor.

-3. 192K and has both lower noise and more dynamics.
It has a higher DB average.

All three are easily picked (I know which by only listening).
But , I prefer #2 ... the dynamics of #3 don't do Alan Parson's original
masterpiece justice - they sound "false" (hearing 1 and 2).
Album list - Dynamic Range Database
Does appear the alan parsons quad remix is considerably more dynamic! but still no need for above 16/44.1 surely?
A native original 2010 192K direct from the artist is on a new level -
even compared with the best of 20th century mastering.

OS

I've yet to find anything to back that up. But the latest recordings on SACD are remarkably good.
 
"investing" for those whose first language is not English: In this context, it is putting time, money, and general learning to make the best hi fi reproduction in our homes possible, still believing that we have further to go to make the best sound reproduction possible.
For example, I added an ultra tweeter pair to my Wilson Sashas recently. Retail cost, with triode tube amp is about $5000. Is it worth it? Depends on the individual who has to listen to it. For me, it is worth it.

It's all about money and spending. Especially on stuff that isn't the real limitation in audio. Maybe you could start thinking about the real issues that separate us from perfection- e.g., multichannel, room acoustics, recording techniques?
 
I have yet to hear digital playback that sounds as good as analog can. Never ever, no time or place, past or present. The closest digital has come to analog for me has been at Kevin Gray's mastering lab. Gray was using a Pacific Microsonics unit and playing some test transfers of Big Band stuff he had done for Steve Hoffman. It was damn good but still slightly plastic sounding.
 
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Just to remind everyone. The Zeppelin catalogue was recently 'remastered' and re-released on HD. With less DR than the 1980 CD release... Of course Dick has waxed lyrical about how good it is, but on one significant metric its worse. 8 extra bits well and truly wasted.

I have that old recording also.... have had various versions of it (including LP back in that day). The HD download is an expensive disappointment to me, as well. Not sure about dynamics - somewhat compressed from the working master used working Master mixed-down for LP. The bass is severely rolled off again. --- which was the reason i bought it... to have the bass restored. Oh well. Not all HD downloads are a total improvement.... still depends on the source used. I tend to stick to New material/recordings.... that have not been mastered for LP.... they seem to have the deep bass and dynamics that is more realistic.


THx- RNMarsh
 
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I'm on Richard's side, I have several vinyl and CD versions of classic rock material that i've heard for 40 years also remastered as HD downloads or on DVD and Blue Ray disks.
Dark Side of the moon as 24/192 - you should hear the incredibly greater detail in the clocks -, Neils Young's Blue Ray remasters, Court of the Crimson King, well over 100 HD alblums. I have an all fet, totally direct coupled system with Poodged full range electrostatics and JL subs . It is clearly evident to me that the high bit rate/ high sample rate material is superior to everything else I have - Oracle VI / SME V / Dynavector XX-2 turntable. An Oppo transport and Borbelys Jfet/Fet discrete dac with Jung and shunt regulators does the digital. A 45 RPM vinyl remaster of Muddy Waters Folk Singer is pretty dam good though

If you can't hear it save the money, I'm not keen to rebuy for the 5th time, but it is the best - your mileage may vary

I had the USA and the imported LP pressing (bought in Germany) of Dark Side of the Moon. Both bought new. I could hear the difference between the two pressings. The import was better in several ways, btw. I only played the import a few times... eventually gave it and all my record collection away. There is now and always has been source variations. With the HD downloads... they have better clarity overall ..... but old recorded music seem to be using Working Masters made for cutting an LP. The dynamics and bass suffer.

Later recorded music (digital or analog) doesnt have the rolled off bass if it is there in the music. And if you really want to hear great bass -- those recorded with a direct pickup are amazing in HD playback. Most older recordings used a mic on the bass speaker.... mic with poor low freq response. Its hard to find well recorded bass without compression/limiting of peaks and then try to find speakers which do it justice. It is harder than most people want and expensive... so i started making my own master recordings of live performances in the Bay area to get full range source material to listen to. I have been doing this for a very long time,



THx-Richard
 
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I'm not saying the artifacts of someone's particular implementation of a computationally compact interpolation might not have errors or even "wrong" interpolation with deliberate deviations from theory.

This is where many arguments and confusion start. It isnt the theory that is wrong or not known or understood so much as the implementation and artifacts from it in design and application in systems. Especially more often occure when costs are cut from design.


THx-RNMarsh
 
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It looks like the max peak level is not the exact same... different.

These screenshots were not to scale. I was fiddling with the knobs for doing other things when I took the photos.

But yes, Vout for 0dBFS signal, varies among these CD players, not by much, less than 1dB.
It is the Rout that varies a lot among them and Rout is one more important characteristic for different ‘sound’ when comparing sources.
I’ve measured it at one freq. I will measure it at more frequency points.

Vout is measured with 10kOhm output load.
CD track used for measurements: 30s of 0dB FS 11025Hz sinus

George
 

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I tend to stick to New material/recordings.... that have not been mastered for LP.... they seem to have the deep bass and dynamics that is more realistic.


THx- RNMarsh

In this I am in agreement. As I have mentioned before at least with classical mastered for SACD there is a lot less processing. On a small sample and not conclusive, but I do more research as I have time. I have a couple of 24/96 recordings which I got for interest but only new material (oh and one that was just silly to get HD).

I don't buy new vinyl in general as it comes from a digital source so just get the digitial. The shame is that the CDs are usually more compressed than the vinyl. Oh and its 3 times the price!

The shame is that, 40 years after ambisonics was first developed we are stuck with 2 channels for much music. Hollywood has left music a long way behind.
 
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I used some OPS power transistor that had low max volt rating...worked fine at 12vdc. I ran them up to 24vdc (higher than max rating) and they did not pop. Has anyone tried to pop IC's with higher than 'rated' max supply voltage? How high did it/they go? I am sure the voltage could differ with p/n or brand.

I am not recommending running parts above their max voltage rating..... and IC may not have the margins...... but it can be done sometimes and I didnt measure any permanent change in any parameters which mattered in the app. In the OPS mentioned and with the particular transistor used the THD even went down.


THx-RNMarsh
 
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Scott
I think that this implies that there will be a measurable level difference btn DAC input and output.
And that such a difference will differ between the case of a HF input signal that was captured in 24bit/44.1k and the case of the same HF signal captured in 24bit/96k or better 24bit/192kHz.

What do you say?

I am trying to find a way to observe the presence and measure the effect of “Inter-sample "overs" using steady state signal and available DACs and ADCs.

George

Your example with a sinus of 11025 Hz (Fs = 44.1 kHz) will work but you have to move the sampling events on the time scale. If you start sampling exactly synchronized with the zero crossing of the sine wave, the sample hit every maximum and the zero crossings in between.

Start sampling not at zero crossing but a 1/8th of a cycle later and you will get the effect.
Usually intersample overs will occur during gain manipulation in the DAW, if the level meters will only rely on the samples compared to FS . Therefore the ~3dB "overshoot" is the worst case for this example.
 
If they are just extrapolating an original 16 bit ----> 24bit .... yes , wasted bits -

If the 24 bit is created using a far stronger reconstruction (more horsepower and bigger z), then the extra bits won't be wasted. There will be less chance of exceeding 0 dB by the playback reconstruction as normalization of amplitude would be less inclined to have simpler reconstruction exceed 0 dB..


One remark, mainly for the unwary and puzzled: the duration of the sampling of a periodic waveform is important. It's remarkable how quickly things converge, with a plurality of samples, but the strawman of fuzzy thinking about sampling theory often delights in ignoring this.
sigh, there goes my infinite hard drive.:(

I used some OPS power transistor that had low max volt rating...worked fine at 12vdc. I ran them up to 24vdc (higher than max rating) and they did not pop. Has anyone tried to pop IC's with higher than 'rated' max supply voltage? How high did it/they go? I am sure the voltage could differ with p/n or brand.

I am not recommending running parts above their max voltage rating..... and IC may not have the margins...... but it can be done sometimes and I didnt measure any permanent change in any parameters which mattered in the app. In the OPS mentioned and with the particular transistor used the THD even went down.
THx-RNMarsh

I do not recommend using transistors beyond their design voltages. I've had many devices punch through as a result of that. In many cases, a mask defect at the diffusion level creates a local punch through region where gain will go up very fast as CE voltage rises. Think of it as an extreme early effect, where a small spot under an emitter finger gains up faster.

Wafer probe can find this problem, but it requires Ices be done AFTER bvce(sus), as bvce(sus) will be inclined to destroy devices which are weak, and Ices will find them. It requires the programmer of the ATE force a P/F on the bvce(sus) test, but does not require datalogging (which would destroy throughput.) Unfortunately, it may require a dwell in or before the Ices due to heating.

Working a transistor beyond it's design voltage brings the danger of a punch through caused current crowding failure under an emitter finger if the device is allowed to voltage slew it's CE voltage with any current being passed.

John
 
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If the 24 bit is created using a far stronger reconstruction (more horsepower and bigger z), then the extra bits won't be wasted. There will be less chance of exceeding 0 dB by the playback reconstruction as normalization of amplitude would be less inclined to have simpler reconstruction exceed 0 dB..

John

But is that the case? 24 bit masters are aligned to 0dBFS in the same was as 16bit are. Or have I completely missed the point again?
 
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