Hello, all.
I've dusted off my old Nait 5 for driving the bottom half of a split midrange driver, this to be actively highpassed, and passively lowpassed.
I can't find both channels of Naca5 cable.
My Naim dealer assures me the little amp will burn up if I use anything but Naim's Naca5 for speaker wire.
The Naim site lists the wire as being 1uH per metre, and 16pF per metre, calling for a minimum 3.5 metre length, to supply adequate inductance, as Naim uses the speaker wire to stabilize their output stage, rather than output inductors. Since I'm using a 14 gauge 1.5mH inductor in series with the speaker wire, wouldn't this supply enough inductance to stabilize the circuit?
Even the drivers voice coil should provide this, no?
Do I really need to spring for $15a foot wire, or is this just marketing trappery?
I've dusted off my old Nait 5 for driving the bottom half of a split midrange driver, this to be actively highpassed, and passively lowpassed.
I can't find both channels of Naca5 cable.
My Naim dealer assures me the little amp will burn up if I use anything but Naim's Naca5 for speaker wire.
The Naim site lists the wire as being 1uH per metre, and 16pF per metre, calling for a minimum 3.5 metre length, to supply adequate inductance, as Naim uses the speaker wire to stabilize their output stage, rather than output inductors. Since I'm using a 14 gauge 1.5mH inductor in series with the speaker wire, wouldn't this supply enough inductance to stabilize the circuit?
Even the drivers voice coil should provide this, no?
Do I really need to spring for $15a foot wire, or is this just marketing trappery?
Pretty sure that the people you talked with just don't know (your dealer doesn't employ analog engineers) those guys just say what they've been told or read. Amps CAN be unstable into capacitive loads (this is what is commonly called "an incompetent design"), and apparently your amp is one of them. But if your load is inductive an you don't try to use some magic type cable that has loads of capacitance between the pair, you should be ok.
Naim amps are unstable because they omitted the output coil, yet the circuit needs it. This was a deliberate decision, because the amp was found to sound better without the output coil. Therefore, only inductive wire can be used. This is a serious trade-off, but most cables should be OK with the Naim, especially with your inductor.
I had this problem in the early 80s with a 12/120 setup. Of course Naim were very good and simply fitted new boards throughout for free, but Julian insisted that I sent in all cabling which was in use at the time of the bang and refused to return them!
[That little lot took out the bass drivers and a midrange in my speakers. I changed my speakers rather than repair them. With both the old and the new speakers that Naim setup was an absolutely vile combination.....it was the only setup which gave me really bad headaches after as little as 30 mins of listening at moderate volume].
[That little lot took out the bass drivers and a midrange in my speakers. I changed my speakers rather than repair them. With both the old and the new speakers that Naim setup was an absolutely vile combination.....it was the only setup which gave me really bad headaches after as little as 30 mins of listening at moderate volume].
It sounds better without the inductor, yet you have to add a distributed inductor (known as a peculiar cable) in order to feed a speaker across the room. Is that an example of good design?
To get such a high inductance and low capacitance probably requires quite a wide spacing in the cable - I calculate an RF characteristic impedance of 250ohms. That could be quite good at picking up RF interference and feeding it back to the amp.
To get such a high inductance and low capacitance probably requires quite a wide spacing in the cable - I calculate an RF characteristic impedance of 250ohms. That could be quite good at picking up RF interference and feeding it back to the amp.
I do believe that you could be a little perceptive with that remark; other than the fact that any cables JV sold were in no way expensive and also claimed no magical properties....they were simply replacement cables as supplied with his amps, but maybe longer for specific installations. [I should have mentioned in the above post that everything, incl. power supply was not only replaced in my amp but replaced with the then current versions...effectively I had a brand new amp.]
Julian also told me that the components used throughout were 'normal spec. for domestic use' and that the amps could fail after 2,000 hours of use.
The point is that he stood behind his products, charged reasonable prices and made no claims other than that they sounded better than others (not all others). That Naim and Linn turned the UK retail market on its head was a great marketing victory.
Those two companies took the lead in a then new form of marketing which by which the USP became 'inferred sound quality', rather than enter into the Japanese led specification war, made for a great relief from a page of "measurements". That it was casually dropped by salesmen that JV was an outstanding pianist also helped somewhat.
Julian also told me that the components used throughout were 'normal spec. for domestic use' and that the amps could fail after 2,000 hours of use.
The point is that he stood behind his products, charged reasonable prices and made no claims other than that they sounded better than others (not all others). That Naim and Linn turned the UK retail market on its head was a great marketing victory.
Those two companies took the lead in a then new form of marketing which by which the USP became 'inferred sound quality', rather than enter into the Japanese led specification war, made for a great relief from a page of "measurements". That it was casually dropped by salesmen that JV was an outstanding pianist also helped somewhat.
Bear in mind back then esoteric cables hadn't taken off and the most you could pay at m local dealers was about £10 a metre and most people used QED 79 strand. The latest NAIM cable is of course anything but.
I'll not argue with the customer support. They were legendary for that, as well as their legions of rabid fans (I work with one). Some of his ideas were very sensible (RCAs are evil) and some were questionable (buy more better PSUs, you know it makes sense).
I'll not argue with the customer support. They were legendary for that, as well as their legions of rabid fans (I work with one). Some of his ideas were very sensible (RCAs are evil) and some were questionable (buy more better PSUs, you know it makes sense).
Once you got past the 'pile 'em high' Asian chrome kit Naim and Linn were the sole companies with a proper, professional approach to marketing. They then expanded that strategy to maximise turn over. Good marketing pure and simple. That I could not stand the product does not detract from that. Others - such as Counterpoint - sold rubbish at inflated prices but with claims that could not be substantiated in reality.
I should note that almost nothing I own was bought new or at list price. Notable exceptions were a pair of speakers in 1990 and the cartridge on my TT. Of course up until the kids started appearing all electronics bar the cd player were DIY. roll on 20 years and I can finally DIY again so chances of me buying anything new other than maybe a DAC is close to zero. It's nice to be able to ignore marketing 
For a laugh Devialet Silver Phantom review | What Hi-Fi?
Not only have they repeated all the SPL errors, but they gave 4 stars to a MONO speaker.
Not only have they repeated all the SPL errors, but they gave 4 stars to a MONO speaker.
See you made it a double Cal........never mind......it is the weekend!
That way he doubled the account balance.
OMG ... 3000watts !!!!!
That's 12 amps @ 240v
I'd like to see the power consumption.
Andy
I don't use an inductor either, but my design topology is not as sensitive to cables, as Julian Veriker(sp), the founder and designer, of the Naim amps. It was what Julian found to sound better, about a decade before me. Does Nelson use output inductors? How about Charles Hansen? Anybody with an outstanding reputation in successful audio design?
Zero means they could not measure it. But who knows what that level is?
Reminds me of the time I was asked to help develop a tritium waste disposal system... coordinate and spec stuff etc. The idea was to heat material containing Tritium or waste water with tritium in it.... burn it/evaporate and have the gas state blown up a tall smoke stack to be dispersed into the atmosphere. It would then be so low in count at the property line as to be undetectable. It would appear as zero.... not there. Unfortunately, I read years later, the government was trying to find the source/cause of high levels of melanoma in the area of the Lab.....could it be?
Zero doesnt always mean nothing there. Same can be said of DBLT.
THx-RNMarsh
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.