True, room rattles can certainly throw this off as well as any HVAC system on nearby. I don't see any graphs from Genelec's brochure showing distortion. If it was good they would show it.
Measuring nearfield like 5mm requires a special mic that can handle very high SPL's in order to get equivalent 90dB at 1m. I have been meaning to do the Linkwitz surgery to my Panasonic WM61A capsule to enable this.
Grain of salt taken, so Maninen, what are the specifics of the measurement? Distance? We see it hits about 90dB so that is about sufficient drive.
Measuring nearfield like 5mm requires a special mic that can handle very high SPL's in order to get equivalent 90dB at 1m. I have been meaning to do the Linkwitz surgery to my Panasonic WM61A capsule to enable this.
Grain of salt taken, so Maninen, what are the specifics of the measurement? Distance? We see it hits about 90dB so that is about sufficient drive.
Have you seen the polars from a $225 pair of JBL LS305's with the cool M2 waveguide? Here is what I measured at 0.5m away and gated 4ms:
Pretty amazing uniformity for a budget device. The HD measurement looked a lot like the one shown for the Genelec in this thread - not impressive and not as good as my diy monitor. So I know that the room wasn't to blame.
distances were 40, 20, 150cm and 1meter
about.
i cant say i see similarity on my other measurements.
if i just had an anechoic chamber
Of course not.
The 8351A has indeed its problems in the 200 - 300 Hz range as the maximum SPL clearly shows.
Maximum SPL (Test from Sound & Recording):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Neumann KH 310 is better in this regard. And the KH 420 ist much better, of course (>110 dB @ 1% THD).
hmm.. or is it room.
this is 1039´s graph, i had some issues with left-right walls. 45hz were gone.
otherwise not so bright as 8351
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
this is 1039´s graph, i had some issues with left-right walls. 45hz were gone.
otherwise not so bright as 8351
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Of course not.
The 8351A has indeed its problems in the 200 - 300 Hz range as the maximum SPL clearly shows.
Maximum SPL (Test from Sound & Recording):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Neumann KH 310 is better in this regard. And the KH 420 ist much better, of course (>110 dB @ 1% THD).
I don't know how to read this graph.
It shows the distortion limited SPL. That means that each frequency is measured independently and volume is increased until 1% (or in this case 3% and 10%) total harmonic distortion is reached. E.g. at 300 Hz this speaker outputs only 98 dB with 3% THD which is not very high.
Ok, I understand now. This is consistent with what I noticed from the data that Maninnen posted: at 50Hz the HD 82dB and 92dB, for 3% and 10% HD, respectively.
Quite small speaker, what else to say.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Of course not.
The 8351A has indeed its problems in the 200 - 300 Hz range as the maximum SPL clearly shows.
Maximum SPL (Test from Sound & Recording):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Neumann KH 310 is better in this regard. And the KH 420 ist much better, of course (>110 dB @ 1% THD).
Very telling. Suggests the midrange is excursion limited. Probably inevitable given the suspension system.
I don't think so. The crossover frequency is 490 Hz. The 8260A has the same crossover point, but a bigger woofer (10"). Its maximum SPL is much higher below the midrange driver.
Maximum SPL of the Genelec 8260A:
I think the small oval woofers are limiting.
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I don't think so. The crossover frequency is 490 Hz. The 8260A has the same crossover point, but a bigger woofer (10"). Its maximum SPL is much higher below the midrange driver.
Maximum SPL of the Genelec 8260A:
I think the small oval woofers are limiting.
Interesting! That points to bass drivers, their strange shape and the slot-loading. Looks like amazing directvitiy performance was placed above HD by quite a distance. It does make me think: why not round drivers with less width? Dual good round 6.5s in a woofer-coaxial-woofer arrangement may work better. Does not solve the potential turbulence problem if any though
Don't most speakers have problems at max SPL? That's why it's max! If you look at the specs for almost all there other speakers they give distortion figures. Maybe because theses are new they haven't yet. All there other speakers at -10db of max have <3% HD below 250hz and <.5% above. I doubt they would suddenly make a speaker with more distortion.
And they are small near field speakers. If you want loud buy a bigger speaker.
And they are small near field speakers. If you want loud buy a bigger speaker.
Of course not.
The 8351A has indeed its problems in the 200 - 300 Hz range as the maximum SPL clearly shows.
Maximum SPL (Test from Sound & Recording):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Neumann KH 310 is better in this regard. And the KH 420 ist much better, of course (>110 dB @ 1% THD).
How can you compare the SPL from a large speaker to a small one? Why don't you compare the Nuemann to the Genelecs with an 8" woofer, which has a max SPL 14bd hotter!
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I think you didn't get the point. THD defines maximum SPL. Maximum SPL is a quality metric. The less THD the higher maximum SPL at a defined sound quality (e.g. 1% THD).
Of course small speakers are worse than bigger ones in this regards. There is no way to cheat the physics. And the Genelec is a small speaker. So I don't see any big problem here.
Why? What counts is enclosure size not woofer size when comparing speakers. Especially for professional use. And the price should be considered.
Genelec 8351A:
Size: 452 x 287 x 278 mm
Price: 3000 €
Neumann KH 310 A:
Size: 253 x 383 x 292 mm
Price: 1900 €
As you can see the KH 310 A is the smaller and cheaper speaker. It has the higher maximum SPL, but the 8351A has the much better directivity.
If you want to compare the Genelec 8260A the Neumann KH 420 is its size and price equivalent.
Genelec 8260A:
Size: 593 x 357 x 347 mm
Price: 4000 €
Neumann KH 420:
Size: 645 x 330 x 444 mm
Price: 4000 €
Please notice the different scalings. Maximum SPL of the KH 420 is again higher than from its Genelec equivalent (above the bass range). In terms of directivity they don't differ too much.
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