I will keep informing people for specific products from GW Instek and more specifically the ones which they are competition killers within 2015.
About of what you think? do not ask me of what I give in return.
Keep it polite or I will crash down your stock market.
This is not any DIY forum so you to play with.
DIY audio translate that people will spent more so their OWN audio equipment to be free of cutting corners that marketing forces vendors to do.
Therefore if you manage to improve technology by using just your mouth instead of tools, you will become our hero.
Hey, Guys,
Just got back online from the weekend away. Thank you to all. I appreciate all the input. I am thinking I will go with a Rigol to start and then research the used Tek-analog side of things. I do like the idea of a good used Tex workhorse. I just want to fully understand the sellers and the return side of the equation and repair/reliability stuff as well. I agree, those older Tek analog scopes are reliable as hell beasts.
Just got back online from the weekend away. Thank you to all. I appreciate all the input. I am thinking I will go with a Rigol to start and then research the used Tek-analog side of things. I do like the idea of a good used Tex workhorse. I just want to fully understand the sellers and the return side of the equation and repair/reliability stuff as well. I agree, those older Tek analog scopes are reliable as hell beasts.
I assume you are a student, money doesn't come easy. You don't need digital scope for audio. All the fancy digital stuffs are mainly good for capturing a single non repeating event, plot out graphs and all. For low speed analog like this, you mainly use generator driving a square or sine to look at rise time, BW and oscillation. You don't have any advantage using a digital scope. Want a screen shot, use your Iphone!!! Do use the money to get a signal generator, a good solder station, good needle nose, cutter etc. More important, ask people here what data acq. card or something to do distortion analysis. This I don't have and don't know much. But sooner or later, I am going to need one.
I hope I don't come out in the wrong way. If I need a $2000 scope, I won't even blink an eye to buy one. But I can tell you, if my 465 bite the dust, I would replace with another 465 in a heart beat as long as I am only working on audiophile or guitar amps.
Now if you are going to do other things in the future, that will be a different story. But that's for another day.
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In 1991 I did served the Greek Air force (NATO telecommunications supervisor).
Today TEK has different priorities, any End Of Life product is truly EOL and regarding spare parts too.
Some people including me have passion at keeping alive old gear, but it is much easier to repair an old Fluke DMM if LCD screen is not damaged, than an Oscilloscope.
Neither Fluke & neither TEX according to their common management, has any plan to assist their customers keeping alive 20 years or more, old gear.
Therefore a used TEX nowadays is a lottery ticket, in the smallest need for spare part, you will have to start a worldwide hunting for remaining stock.
Modern gear comes with a warranty plan and nothing is serviceable by the user.
The only vendors who will hand over a spare part in the customers hand in 2015, is HIOKI Japan and GW Instek in Taiwan, and their warranty plan is thee years long.
Test and measurement equipment market has change, and the best that you can get from a local seller of used stuff is just a promise.
I am an active Pro, I do not accept promises.
Disregard the criticism of analog vs digital scopes. The Rigol I mentioned is as good as any analog scope I've previously used. My use is entirely on analog signals and I have almost 40 years of experience at this. Take account also that the Rigol is nice and compact compared to those huge Tek analogue scopes that are being recommended. In addition you get a good warranty on the Rigol plus at Eevblog forum a very active bunch of users who can help with any questions that arise. They are also tracking bugs and are watched by Rigol.
$650 plus shipping??? thats crazy expensive, did you not mean to say US$65?
This ones "Buy it now" for US$180
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2...Domain_0&hash=item3aa43f159d&autorefresh=true
or even cheaper (a little battered but would clean up nicely, so cheap there's not much to loose):-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tektronix-2...9&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=251863700893&rt=nc
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Hey, Guys,
Sorry, I did not give more background info. No, I am not a student. Graduated with BSEE way back in the late 80s. Did some full custom, analog IC design at texas instruments/defense group. I have since transitioned into program mgt. So, while I do not have money falling out of my pockets, I do have a reasonable budget for test equipment. Already have two fluke DMMs ( a really old 87 that refuses to die and newer 116). I am looking for an oscope for power supply design and various signal processing circuits at present. I am planning on starting with a PS design targeting 12, 15, and 24V rails (+/-). I figure I will use a good PS design over and over for processing circuits (mostly phone preamps).
Alan, already have! I do like the Rigols. I LOVE the Teks too. But, the newer Rigols sure look like major bang for the buck scopes. I just need to research the used Tek market much further before I pull the trigger on an older, used scope.
Sorry, I did not give more background info. No, I am not a student. Graduated with BSEE way back in the late 80s. Did some full custom, analog IC design at texas instruments/defense group. I have since transitioned into program mgt. So, while I do not have money falling out of my pockets, I do have a reasonable budget for test equipment. Already have two fluke DMMs ( a really old 87 that refuses to die and newer 116). I am looking for an oscope for power supply design and various signal processing circuits at present. I am planning on starting with a PS design targeting 12, 15, and 24V rails (+/-). I figure I will use a good PS design over and over for processing circuits (mostly phone preamps).
Alan, already have! I do like the Rigols. I LOVE the Teks too. But, the newer Rigols sure look like major bang for the buck scopes. I just need to research the used Tek market much further before I pull the trigger on an older, used scope.
I picked up a Fluke CombiScope PM3394B off eBay a few months ago in absolutely mint condition for $450 shipped. This is a really cool scope - 4 channels, 25GSa (repetitive)/200MSa (realtime), and most importantly it combines both a DSO and a 200MHz CRO into a single unit. You flip between analog and digital mode at the press of a button! It even keeps all your settings like timebase, vertical scale, channel vertical positions, etc etc when switching modes. It's the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned.
I have a $17K Tek MSO5054 on my bench at work but honestly prefer using my PM3394B. Lots of useful buttons on the front panel and not as much hiding things in menus. The Fluke is of course 15+ years older and has ADCs that can't touch the ADCs in the Tek 5000 series... but I honestly haven't found a real need for a modern ultra fast DSO. I can just drop the Fluke into analog mode since 200MHz analog is plenty fast for anything I've tried to do. I actually wind up using the analog and digital modes about equally.
I would definitely recommend keeping an eye out for a PM3394B, although I think the price I paid was a great deal for the condition of my unit. My father (Tek 465 die-hard, not that there's anything wrong with that) thought I had paid around $1000 for it and was shocked when he saw the invoice.
I have a $17K Tek MSO5054 on my bench at work but honestly prefer using my PM3394B. Lots of useful buttons on the front panel and not as much hiding things in menus. The Fluke is of course 15+ years older and has ADCs that can't touch the ADCs in the Tek 5000 series... but I honestly haven't found a real need for a modern ultra fast DSO. I can just drop the Fluke into analog mode since 200MHz analog is plenty fast for anything I've tried to do. I actually wind up using the analog and digital modes about equally.
I would definitely recommend keeping an eye out for a PM3394B, although I think the price I paid was a great deal for the condition of my unit. My father (Tek 465 die-hard, not that there's anything wrong with that) thought I had paid around $1000 for it and was shocked when he saw the invoice.
Well, that's a whole different story all together. If you are doing things other than audio amplifiers, then sky is the limit. If you have plans to get into different projects, then it's worth spending money on a good scope.
I have a fully tricked out Philips/Fluke PM3384A 100MHz combiscope, which I got for €35 nine years ago. I can only recommend one if you can get it very cheaply. The analog scope part is OK, but digitally, it will be outperformed by even the cheap Rigol DS1000Z. The combiscopes approach the age of 25 years, and sourcing spares is a nightmare, especially when the front panel controls are starting to fall apart like on mine. Paradoxically, older analog scopes may be easier to keep alive than these scopes.
If capturing single shot events is your thing more often than once a week, go for something more recent. My next scope will be a new one.
If capturing single shot events is your thing more often than once a week, go for something more recent. My next scope will be a new one.
Working with Pulses translate to 50,000 waveform update rate per second and nothing less.
So slightest ferrite transformer issues at 100~200kHz to be discovered.
And to be battery powered so isolation to ground to not be a problem.
Therefore my answer and recommendation at the very first page of this topic is valid for this job.
Other gear capable for that: GDS-2000A, DS2000 , 3000X.
You're links are to scopes that are being sold as "For parts or not working", they may be simple and cheap to fix but maybe not, I'm talking about a scope that's brand new in the box with Tektronix probes. Big difference.
Tektronix Oscilloscope 2246 Mod A 90 250V Lab Laboratory Test Equipment New | eBay
I don't know where this seller bought these from but I assume they are old military surplus and were sitting in a storeroom somewhere like the one that I bought back in 2008.
Most modern scopes have been toted around for years by field service representatives.
Sorry, my bad I didn't expect them to be new
Maybe its just me, but I'd rather spend the same amount of funds on a Flagship second hand unit (and not be put off if it needs some small repair work) then buy a "lesser" new scope...
I can understand those who are put off by the lack of a warranty... I've (touching wood) always manged to repair items when required.
To be honest, old school TEK's can easily be repaid, but I'd not want to bet you will have much support in ten years for todays SMD / Software wonders.
God willing, in 10 years time I'll still be able to repair the simple discrete circuits of the TEKs... and I'm sure replacing the odd duff Tant Cap that's gone short circuit.....
Thinking about it, I've only had Tant caps go SC in my HP / Agilent Gear - the axial mustard yellow 10uF 16V's... one on a HP3577B and the other on a HP3583B - not bad considering how much gear I have between my labs in CZ and HK and have often they are used.
The worst thing is shipping units internationally, as moisture seeps into components if shipped by sea - or even by air cargo.
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My two TEKs (7904 and a 5000 series chassis with a variety of plugins) were both bought requiring some TLC. They are lovely to work on - works of art schematically and physically, and have never needed anything more than some replacement caps and cleaning of contacts.
Our Greek friend can shuv his "Calibration Certificates"! Ten years of use and never needed any for amateur audio applications. Two 'scopes and a number of plugins allow cross-referencing, with the addition of a 100Mhz crystal and $5 worth of decade dividers.
Edit: later models with self-test firmware menus and lots of custom ICs are much more problematic, I admit.
Our Greek friend can shuv his "Calibration Certificates"! Ten years of use and never needed any for amateur audio applications. Two 'scopes and a number of plugins allow cross-referencing, with the addition of a 100Mhz crystal and $5 worth of decade dividers.
Edit: later models with self-test firmware menus and lots of custom ICs are much more problematic, I admit.
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