Sound Quality Vs. Measurements

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dan. I have a friend in Berlin who is into the history of Siemens. Frank always points out when we say Germany we often mean Prussia. As we spoke he got me to look inside the BMW motorcycle factory. It looks to be the twin of the old Austin factory in Oxford. Modern in places and mostly 1933. If you said the same builder I would say yes. Frank works in the diplomatic service. He showed my what remains of the Bunker where the speaker cable tests were done. From what I know that silly clip would have been slightly correct. I met via thorens the old GDr sound engineers who built the thorens electronics. If you like the BBC style research lab under the communists. I am told the products of the GDR arre much respected and big money. The speakers look like Redeko ( French , spelling? ) but the real deal. Somethings were Audiofool almost. Very nice people who don't have a bad bone in their bodies I suspect? Frank also showed me how the Bauhaus is being restored in the original dark green. Berliners like the DGR traffic lights. Gradually the whole city is getting them. They are cute. Best cheap ice cream also.
 
It gets better, Dejan, :) - my mother grew up in Vienna, they had a holiday house in Mondsee, near Salzburg ... and my father came from those northern regions where those stiff, military types you mentioned hang out, :D.

My father's side is not so well known to me, they didn't have long lives, not the best genes it seems - on my mother's it was all doctoring and engineering.

It appears my ancestors were more dilligent than yours - I know my family tree by name 7 centuries back. Vienna and Graz, those were two centers of Austrian side of the family, and I still have relatives there. No real connections, I don't even know the young generation.

My failing was in my year of birth. When I was a kid, my omama tried to reach me German, but those were the fifties, when like 99% of Yugoslav movie production was about how the partisans kicked the *** of the Germans, and German was very unpopular. They left us a legacy of around 2 million dead 1941-1945, together with their puppaet state, the Independant State of Croatia, a quazi-nazi Frankenstein of a state. In just one day, in 1941, they shot the entire fourth grade of grammar school pupils with their teachers in the city of Kragujevac, around 2.000 of them. For years of that, in 1944 Germans had 6 divisions tied up in Yugoslavia and were rapidly losing ground, and the more they lost, the worse they became.

Not that the Allies were much better, mind you. Our allies, the Americans, flying to the oil fileds of Ploesti (Romania), the last big source of oil for the Nazi Germany, treated us with some carpet bombing just to let us know how they love us. 1944-1945, their love was plentyful. Yet, over 2.000 US airmen shot down over Yugoslavia were rescued and sent back by the partisans mostly (across the Adriatic sea to Italy).
 
I knew it! El Pearson Furioso did it again! Starts out with a nice classic design with a diff pair and a current mirror and ends up with a kiddie schematic and EXICOM MOSFETs. Just when I thought we managed to move him into the seveties, he reverts to the 60ies. Kinda makes you wonder why bipolars were discussed at all.

My dear chap. It is so we can see the wood for the trees. It's the feedback and gain that is interesting.

This is how Renardson Audio saw the same thing. The feedback pair input is actually as linear as any long tail pair with or without degeneartion inclucding cascodes and ones with FET. Persoanlly I like a single transitor as it has the right distortion albeit higher in level. This amplifer is of almost zero distortion in the advanced versions. He back tracks after that as I think he prefers the simplicity shown here.

i3C89dY.jpg
 
Dan. I have a friend in Berlin who is into the history of Siemens. Frank always points out when we say Germany we often mean Prussia. As we spoke he got me to look inside the BMW motorcycle factory. It looks to be the twin of the old Austin factory in Oxford. Modern in places and mostly 1933. If you said the same builder I would say yes. Frank works in the diplomatic service. He showed my what remains of the Bunker where the speaker cable tests were done. From what I know that silly clip would have been slightly correct. I met via thorens the old GDr sound engineers who built the thorens electronics. If you like the BBC style research lab under the communists. I am told the products of the GDR arre much respected and big money. The speakers look like Redeko ( French , spelling? ) but the real deal. Somethings were Audiofool almost. Very nice people who don't have a bad bone in their bodies I suspect? Frank also showed me how the Bauhaus is being restored in the original dark green. Berliners like the DGR traffic lights. Gradually the whole city is getting them. They are cute. Best cheap ice cream also.

Nigel, it's not generally mentioned that Germany itself was divided, first between the Protestants (to the east) and Catholics (to the west), then within the armed forces between Wehrmacht, which was the regular army, led by professional soldiers, and the Nazi Waffen SS, led by SS officers. The Wehrmacht officers despised the SS, whom they considred to be thugs and definitely a competitor for the love of Hitler, which translated into arms and warfare technology. It's also true that most of German atrocities were commited by Nazis, not the regular army, except when directly ordered to assist the SS.

Most of what was East Germany are protestant, most of West Germany was Catholic. The unification of Germany has brought up the old problems and strife even today. Which is why Germans feel that the Unification is a still an ongoing process.

For myself, I have opnly once met a true Prussian. He was a metereologist working for UNESCO in Turkey just as my dad was, but this guy was straight out of an Erich von Stroheim movie. Monocle, firms military step, stiff bow of repect when meeting, shaved head (in 1967), the original. Yet, his notions of honesty and honor were Old World, yet commanding respect, I really liked him. Old military family a few centuries back.
 
Last edited:
Perhaps so, Nige, but I am not convinced. Sine our (wife and me) trip to the UK in late August is still on, I assue you may be able to convince me otherwise in your lair in Oxford, which itself was a bitter pill to swallow (I did my GCE O levels under Cambridge).

And yes, it's true, we do row better. :D
 
In 1944 Germans had 6 divisions tied up in Yugoslavia and were rapidly losing ground, and the more they lost, the worse they became.
pervetin.jpg Nazis-and-methamphetamine
A bad drug that causes loss of reality and loss of morality.

Not that the Allies were much better, mind you...
99: Oh, Max what a terrible weapon of destruction.
Max: Yes. You know, China, Russia, and France should outlaw all nuclear weapons. We should insist upon it.
99: What if they don't, Max?
Max: Then we may have to blast them. That's the only way to keep peace in the world.

Dan.
 
Ve haff vays of making people shpeak!

If memory serves, "Hogan's Heros" was a US TV series spoofing WWII POW camps. I didn't see the series, but I read the comics based on the series. The man on the picture was the actor Werner Klemperer who played the German camp commandant, I'm sure of it. The comic books had the pictures of actors on the front page. Some memory, huh?
 
Last edited:
Perhaps so, Nige, but I am not convinced. Sine our (wife and me) trip to the UK in late August is still on, I assue you may be able to convince me otherwise in your lair in Oxford, which itself was a bitter pill to swallow (I did my GCE O levels under Cambridge).

And yes, it's true, we do row better. :D

OMG I will have to get this piece of junk working properly. It has been playing up. The LP12 motor seems a bit broken. That is almost impossible as there is nothing in it. I do have a new one. The Quad 33 has regained a problem. August is just about the right amount of time.

I have a lot of time for Cambridge. Many friends were from there. As you might know it is often that people try to do the BSc at Oxford and PHD in Cambridge or vice verse. Go to Ely if you have time. Cambridgeshire is a bit boring. Nextdooor counties are nicer. Essex is ! Go visit Sizewell A & B. Do do that as the area is very nice.
 
I think the LP12 motor bearings might be gummed up. Philips were closing the Belgium factory about then. That's when they stopped making the single pivot CD drive. I did have problems before. No ammount of cleaning seems to get the gunk out. Rega almost had a recall over it. This one I suspect is not of that batch. I just think it is a version of that problem. I did oil it the other day and it seemed OK. Now it is slow to start again and has wow. The PSU measures OK ( 80 V ).

If you get problems with the Philips CD drive try moving the flexible PCB in it's connector. Sometimes 1 mm adjustment will help it. The problem is they get stiff with age. The Belgium plant closed when the EEC would not allow lower pay. Some workers wanted that. The Marantz style drive was trouble from the start. When I asked a Marantz Japan engineer why get rid of the single pivot for the troublesome two rail he said " Single pivot has tracking error ". I nearly pulled my hair out. It's not a turntable and is not bothered. What it had was near zero friction and could correct quickly. WD 40 seems a reasonably fix the rail type. Same problem as the motors. The oil seems to gum up. I dare say that's an idea. WD40 in the LP12 motor and new SAE 20 ( not motorcar type, sewing machine oil is about right, not 3 in 1 oil ). On the CD drive the WD40 is the fix. It seems to need it every 6 months after that. My guess is the original oil is brought back to life albeit it breifly. Use a cotton bud run up each rail so as to avoid WD40 in the works. Use plenty as it seems to need a good dose. A CD with short tracks put on first and last track plus repeat is useful.

On old Philips the thrust bearing goes. Often that's all that is wrong. Also the magnetic clamp on the two rail was changed. These almost brake it to unclip it. As far as I can tell the larger magnet was not the cure and build quality was the problem.
 
Frankly Nige, I have never had any problems with Philips mechanics, not even with my old open reel tape deck. The single pivot did need to be cleaned and greased every now and then, but it was nothing alarming, a say 20 minute job at worst. Using graphite based grease reduced this to once a year, and even that was more preventive than really necessary.

The electric rotary shaver my dad bought in 1956, and used daily until 1968 when he bought a new one, still works perfectly to this day.
 
I think the LP12 motor bearings might be gummed up. ....I did oil it the other day and it seemed OK. Now it is slow to start again and has wow. The PSU measures OK ( 80 V ).

WD 40 seems a reasonably fix the rail type. Same problem as the motors. The oil seems to gum up. I dare say that's an idea. WD40 in the LP12 motor and new SAE 20 ( not motorcar type, sewing machine oil is about right, not 3 in 1 oil ). On the CD drive the WD40 is the fix. It seems to need it every 6 months after that. My guess is the original oil is brought back to life albeit it breifly. Use a cotton bud run up each rail so as to avoid WD40 in the works. Use plenty as it seems to need a good dose. A CD with short tracks put on first and last track plus repeat is useful.

On old Philips the thrust bearing goes. Often that's all that is wrong. Also the magnetic clamp on the two rail was changed. These almost brake it to unclip it. As far as I can tell the larger magnet was not the cure and build quality was the problem.
Sorry Nige, you are doing the worst thing possible.
WD40 is white spirits and light oil...may as well be Singer sewing machine oil.
The problem is that light oil/Singer oil evaporates and leaves a gummy sludge/residue behind, as you are experiencing.
Ever serviced an older sewing machine ?....thick sticky gum is what you find collected in the lower parts.
The ideal oil in my experience (decades and thousands of machines) is Dexron II auto transmission oil...that Rose red stuff.
It wicks into sintered bronze bearings perfectly, does not creep, and does not evaporate.
I was once told Dexron II has bronze dissolved into it to prevent corrosion of auto gear box bronze thrust plates/parts.

In the case of your previously 'abused' (Linn) bearing, apply new Dexron oil using a syringe to the sintered bearings and run the motor.
In short order, the meniscus of oil will turn black due to worn bearing/oxidised oil dissolving.
Use a folded over scrap of fine lint free cloth (do NOT use cotton buds) to wick up the polluted oil, and reapply new oil.
Continue rinsing and removing until the oil stays clear red and you are done.

In the case of Phillips CDP spin motor, remove the bottom thrust plate, solvent wash the sintered bearing shell, and then apply Dexron, rinse and repeat until clear red.
Ditto the top spin motor bearing shell.
If the bottom end of the spin motor shaft is scored/worn wrongly, use finest wet and dry to restore the original polished hemispherical shape, and cleanse thoroughly...ie don't leave ANY carborundum particles behind.

In the case of the swing arm bearings, clean the balls and sockets, and apply white light machine grease.
A common problem is that the bottom thin springy stainless plate is applying too much thrust, thus binding the swing arm.
Whilst reassembling and tightening the two Torx screws, use a finger nail to slightly pull the plate away from the mech, in order to reduce the thrust.
It may take a little practice to get the setting correct....you can end up with free end float.
Once the setting is correct, the swing arm will sweep freely and bounce off the end stops nicely.

Dan.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.