Hi Dejan. UK was very good. Now it is still very OK. The USA has vast distances to cover and it has to be done at sensible cost. My research tells me that the 1954 USA standard of 120 V is realistic. From my information this is best stated as +/- 10%. Many suppose it is simply 50% of the European standard. Whilst that is OK to assume in most cases it is wrong when people have 130 to 132 V. Gary Koh told me he gets 130 V at the factory. As he is a professional I take that to be correct. 260 V would be very unsafe with European equipement that has been converted using it's supplied split windings. 253V ( 126.5 ) is already far too much. 117 V is the supposed USA standard. I strongly suggest 120 V. The gentleman who gets 121V without much variation would be fine. My company mailed all of our customers all over the world as we had a new product that might suffer. In the 220/240 V zones we had 180 to 280 V. 180V is dangerous also. It can cause overheating due to the device trying to compensate. Sony TV's switched off at 190 V for this reason. Sony set them to 187 V for trailer park customers if we asked ( Sony UK ). This came about because the owner of the site had doubled the size without having an upgraded mains supply. The Sony SMPS transistor was expensive and fragile. The Philips ( BU 208 ? ) 25% the cost and bomb proof.
BTW. 230 V should still be +/- 10%. This allows for counties who don't have the ability to raise the standard and wiring losses to be accounted for. Also the Greens have demanded our coal fired power stations closed. I suspect - 10 % will result ( - 14 % overal ).
My research says +/-6% for the ears should be OK. +/- 3% for the perfectionist who might get better valve life also. This makes knowing the centre voltage very important. 230 and 120 plus 100 V Japan. All +/- 10% as realistic limits. Japan does hit 90 V low at peak demand. My record cleaning machines had to work at 90V. More important than amplifiers as the pump motors get unhappy when too little or too much.
BTW. 230 V should still be +/- 10%. This allows for counties who don't have the ability to raise the standard and wiring losses to be accounted for. Also the Greens have demanded our coal fired power stations closed. I suspect - 10 % will result ( - 14 % overal ).
My research says +/-6% for the ears should be OK. +/- 3% for the perfectionist who might get better valve life also. This makes knowing the centre voltage very important. 230 and 120 plus 100 V Japan. All +/- 10% as realistic limits. Japan does hit 90 V low at peak demand. My record cleaning machines had to work at 90V. More important than amplifiers as the pump motors get unhappy when too little or too much.
My own line voltage is 231+/-2 V worst case. So I can't complain.
And it's very fortunate that I do power line filters, because while very stable, my line voltage is also very dirty. Short term peaks go to over 900V, and what should ideally be a pure 50 Hz sine wave is in fact totally black from spurious noise. The filters take care of most of it, thank goodness.
And it's very fortunate that I do power line filters, because while very stable, my line voltage is also very dirty. Short term peaks go to over 900V, and what should ideally be a pure 50 Hz sine wave is in fact totally black from spurious noise. The filters take care of most of it, thank goodness.
You beat me. 236 to 243 V. Mostly about 241 V with +/- 2V over a 5 minute period. Was much better before the 230 V Harmony or whatever we call it. The Germans say 227 V is their modern standard. Russia also says that is now typical. About 114 V US. The jump to 132 V is a very large one.
My Variac changes with the mains. I find it stays still long enough to do tests. If the filtering was greater zener diodes could control that.
One thing I noticed was adding FET's changed the distortion far more than I exspected. That must hold true for feedback amps and be a powerful arguement on top of power delivery? The one thing this did prove was FET's show very little crossover distortion if given some bias. I am told this holds true to 10 kHz in a typical circuit. I did try a class BC output. Even at this very low frequency it was hopeless. It had all the time in the world to react but couldn't just jump into life. Although very obvious it shows how even the smallest bias works wonders. I have used class BC with feedback and had OK results. Does make me think the Quad 405 can not control all the problems it makes. Silly thing is the Quad could be made AB and retain it's concept if MOS FET. If my circuit if made zero bias ( via the VAS, 8 mA 470 R set to 0R ) you still have about 3 mA standing current. It is enough to make a big difference. Far better than Quads Gatling gun output stage.
My Variac changes with the mains. I find it stays still long enough to do tests. If the filtering was greater zener diodes could control that.
One thing I noticed was adding FET's changed the distortion far more than I exspected. That must hold true for feedback amps and be a powerful arguement on top of power delivery? The one thing this did prove was FET's show very little crossover distortion if given some bias. I am told this holds true to 10 kHz in a typical circuit. I did try a class BC output. Even at this very low frequency it was hopeless. It had all the time in the world to react but couldn't just jump into life. Although very obvious it shows how even the smallest bias works wonders. I have used class BC with feedback and had OK results. Does make me think the Quad 405 can not control all the problems it makes. Silly thing is the Quad could be made AB and retain it's concept if MOS FET. If my circuit if made zero bias ( via the VAS, 8 mA 470 R set to 0R ) you still have about 3 mA standing current. It is enough to make a big difference. Far better than Quads Gatling gun output stage.
I was visiting a friend a couple of evenings ago.
He went for a shower.
The light above the laptop I was working with dimmed very noticeably as he turned on the shower and came back to normal when he turned the shower off.
He is a farmer, presumably a longish distance from a small transformer.
Volts drop on loading seems to be a problem, that he was completely unaware of.
Next time I visit, I'm taking a voltmeter with me to find if the Vdrop is at the distribution board or in the house wiring.
He went for a shower.
The light above the laptop I was working with dimmed very noticeably as he turned on the shower and came back to normal when he turned the shower off.
He is a farmer, presumably a longish distance from a small transformer.
Volts drop on loading seems to be a problem, that he was completely unaware of.
Next time I visit, I'm taking a voltmeter with me to find if the Vdrop is at the distribution board or in the house wiring.
I would really appreciate that Andrew. I am convinced 230/120/100 V +/- 10% to be realistic limits. I suspect if things got bad in the UK we might see 190 V. Better that than no electricity. In Belgium 95 % of things worked when that low. That is UK things I took there.
If anyone questions this the voltage is a big deal in sound quality. The bigger deal for related reasons is the resistance of the cables ( not who made them ). Also how tough the screwdriver tightening the terminals is. If you feel confident check your own. Loose terminals are a fire risk also. Most old installations are 1/4 turn loose. I have seen the push fit USA type. If possible replace them. I dare say I haven't looked carefully and they might be better? I looks bad, that's all I can say.
As I know it the USA suffers neutral shift. That is circuit A might be 6 V different to circuit B ( I doubt it, I have been told so ). It begs the question . Why don't US users use the 240 V circuit ? Having said that, if a house is carefully worked out to have balanced loading that solves much of the problem. Even so the i-squared - r loosess are smaller when 240 V giving the sense of tighter bass. If you like the amplifer sounds more expensive for no money spent. This is with respect to house wiring which is often difficult to upgrade. Not worth saying " not so " as it is a free of charge upgrade. At worst it is the same. I strongly doubt that.
Am I right in thinking Phase/Live black and white Neutral in the USA ? I seem to think it is that as black is Neutral in old UK system ( the opposite ). Is the fat pin live ?
If anyone questions this the voltage is a big deal in sound quality. The bigger deal for related reasons is the resistance of the cables ( not who made them ). Also how tough the screwdriver tightening the terminals is. If you feel confident check your own. Loose terminals are a fire risk also. Most old installations are 1/4 turn loose. I have seen the push fit USA type. If possible replace them. I dare say I haven't looked carefully and they might be better? I looks bad, that's all I can say.
As I know it the USA suffers neutral shift. That is circuit A might be 6 V different to circuit B ( I doubt it, I have been told so ). It begs the question . Why don't US users use the 240 V circuit ? Having said that, if a house is carefully worked out to have balanced loading that solves much of the problem. Even so the i-squared - r loosess are smaller when 240 V giving the sense of tighter bass. If you like the amplifer sounds more expensive for no money spent. This is with respect to house wiring which is often difficult to upgrade. Not worth saying " not so " as it is a free of charge upgrade. At worst it is the same. I strongly doubt that.
Am I right in thinking Phase/Live black and white Neutral in the USA ? I seem to think it is that as black is Neutral in old UK system ( the opposite ). Is the fat pin live ?
Yeah, we're black hot, white neutral. For 220v appliances, the second phase is red.
There is no "red second Phase".. It's Single Phase, L1 and L2...
I've used 240V equipment many times. My latest tube mono's are wired 240v.. I ounce had 4 - 240v Bryston 7B SST with rated power 70w more, than the 120v version..
I cant seem to convince people around here to go with 240v equipment..It's a better and cheaper upgrade than spending foolishly elsewhere.. The only real issue with adding the circuit(s) is fishing the cable to location..
I suppose Resale of 240v branded gear is an issue but for DIY, why Not do it..
I've used 240V equipment many times. My latest tube mono's are wired 240v.. I ounce had 4 - 240v Bryston 7B SST with rated power 70w more, than the 120v version..
I cant seem to convince people around here to go with 240v equipment..It's a better and cheaper upgrade than spending foolishly elsewhere.. The only real issue with adding the circuit(s) is fishing the cable to location..
I suppose Resale of 240v branded gear is an issue but for DIY, why Not do it..
You're correct of course, I'm just used to describing it like that.
In Aus, we originally followed the British standard of Active, Neutral, Earth.
Nowadays, the standard is Active, Neutral, Earth.
The US(Japan ?) Black Active/White Neutral wiring standard has confused me in the past, and more recently when repairing my washing machine...the wiring initially did not make sense until I understood that it used the US colours.
The Brown/Blue/GreenYellow standard is for colour blindness reasons - Plug wiring colour scheme
Any ideas of how the US standard evolved ?.
Dan.
This gives you CT balanced power..should be a good thing.
I use medical grade toroids (earthed foil between pri/sec windings) to give me isolated floating power.
I find this improves system performance nicely.
I will get around to trying two of these toroids (I have six) wired to give me 120V/0V/120V and see if that reduces parasitic signal cable earth currents, and/or subjective change.
Dan.
.I think 60Hz hum if about -80dB sounds louder than 50 Hz - 80dB. This I think shows how the ear sensetivity is dropping off ? Often this is 100 or 120 Hz. If I am right that implies 100 Hz is at the limit of sensetive hearing? Maybe 40 Hz is better? Most transformers are happy at 40 Hz.
The 120-0-120 ( 1954 regs ) of the USA benefits the use of 240 V especially if the O can be made zero. I really don't know if neutral shift exists. People say it does. It seems unlikely. Anyone want to measure the circuits around the house? Some will differ as they are further from the fuse board. I suspect worst case is when the living room is used and the rest of the house not. Ironically when listening to music. From what I was told it can be 6 V different.
The 120-0-120 ( 1954 regs ) of the USA benefits the use of 240 V especially if the O can be made zero. I really don't know if neutral shift exists. People say it does. It seems unlikely. Anyone want to measure the circuits around the house? Some will differ as they are further from the fuse board. I suspect worst case is when the living room is used and the rest of the house not. Ironically when listening to music. From what I was told it can be 6 V different.
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The simplest, cheapest trick I use when I want to up the performance of any ol' audio bit o' kit is to effectively create a devoted spur from the most direct run back to the outside fuse box - works every time, costs nothing but a bit of untidiness in the house at times ... tells me where things are at, with respect to how important interference effects are to potential sound quality ...
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I put a ring main in for a friend that was 3 metres total. His listening area backs onto the fuse board the other side of the wall. There is 2 x 2.5 mm with a 32 amp MCB fuse. That cable would supply 54 amps. 8 sockets in a ring. The most important thing is it was cheap. We used unswitched Crabtree brand sockets.
100 Hz verses 120 Hz. The test was done with Quad 63's. For some reason 100 Hz sounds less. 120 Hz has a nasty near to death sound. 100 Hz is deeper and just unwanted noise. 50 Hz is deep and a bit sexy if not too loud.
100 Hz verses 120 Hz. The test was done with Quad 63's. For some reason 100 Hz sounds less. 120 Hz has a nasty near to death sound. 100 Hz is deeper and just unwanted noise. 50 Hz is deep and a bit sexy if not too loud.
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