Once something reaches cult status it can do no wrong, yes ...? The last time I heard a "hifi" excerpt from this it was at the Sydney audio club meeting - on vinyl, and the level of distortion was awful, it was gritting one's teeth stuff - but because it was that recording, and vinyl, it had to be the best, right ...?
So your one non PC experience kills this recordingYou are clueless Franky, but you already know that ....
Frank's granny? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2llD14sHss
Unfortunately many people listening to hifi are "clueless" - why else do they listen to pretty dreadful sounding stuff, and nod their heads in approval ...
The Belafonte at Carnegie thing "works" because it's got tons of natural reverb, and unless the system is totally FUBAR the listener can work out what's going on, and it sounds nice and spacious. It's like a highway that's been levelled to laser flatness, and swept clean to operating room standards; even a car with the axles welded solid to the chassis will have a decent ride - talk about spoonfeeding the listener ...
So, what I'm interested in is that, say, Harry Belafonte - Jamaica Farewell (live) 1997 - YouTube sounds absolutely superb - a far more wothwhile exercise.
The Belafonte at Carnegie thing "works" because it's got tons of natural reverb, and unless the system is totally FUBAR the listener can work out what's going on, and it sounds nice and spacious. It's like a highway that's been levelled to laser flatness, and swept clean to operating room standards; even a car with the axles welded solid to the chassis will have a decent ride - talk about spoonfeeding the listener ...
So, what I'm interested in is that, say, Harry Belafonte - Jamaica Farewell (live) 1997 - YouTube sounds absolutely superb - a far more wothwhile exercise.
Belafonte at Carnegie Hall does not distort on my system. Neither vinyl, nor CD.
It is one of the most " real " sounding recordings ever made.
I talked about the phenomenon of " focus " before.
What is that ?
I experience it particular with voices.
There seem to be an "edge" where the voice ends and the surrounding "air" begins.
The most striking example i found is this song :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Ci1VrvD74
Ignore the advertising.
OK, this is on You Tube so the quality is compromised.
When you want to apreciate it in full glory fetch the album or beg, steal or borrow the CD.
YES; the effect is on the CD too.
It is one of the most " real " sounding recordings ever made.
I talked about the phenomenon of " focus " before.
What is that ?
I experience it particular with voices.
There seem to be an "edge" where the voice ends and the surrounding "air" begins.
The most striking example i found is this song :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Ci1VrvD74
Ignore the advertising.
OK, this is on You Tube so the quality is compromised.
When you want to apreciate it in full glory fetch the album or beg, steal or borrow the CD.
YES; the effect is on the CD too.
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You are absolutely crazy, there is no comparison between this and his early work done at Carnegie ..
Exactly ....
Precisely ..
..
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See, a.wayne, Scott's got the right idea - this is the sort of stuff your system has to be able to reproduce well,
- seriously, this is exactly the type of "obstacle course" that a system should be capable of negotiating - unraveling that is not for the faint hearted, but certainly achievable ...Scarf's the wrong colour, but apart from that the resemblence is ...
Jeez Frank the sibilance here is so bad it leaves the image and appears in its own place.
Try this one, the Rega skips when the Tympani starts on he original Mangione version ......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtxGiqqPTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48X0KubvnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtxGiqqPTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48X0KubvnQ
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The point I was making is not that there is a problem with the recording - but that a vinyl system, with an "audiophile" recording, doesn't guarantee anything. That setup I heard had obvious problems, and it amazed me that people were po-faced, listening to it at the time ...
That "edge" is the interface between the audible end of the direct sound, and the echos in the recording space resulting from the sound. An extreme version of that is the classic yell into a canyon, where there are some seconds between the end of the call, and the first "returns". In a normal space the echos mix in with the direct, there is an overlay, in a smooth continuum, to beyond the audible end of the direct.
Ah-ha, very good! I wondered whether anyone would mention similar ... yes, the recording is done in such a way that the sibilance can come across as extreme. That's exactly what refining a system is all about, "taming" that effect - and a measure of one's success is that the quality of the sibilance is not longer apparent as an unnatural additive to the sound - but fits in, makes sense. This is NOT about removing bits of the sound, but reducing the distortion component that makes the sibilance have its own, annoying space.
There is tremendous depth in that recording, a myriad of spaces extending way back from the singer - the aim is to have Belafonte sounding completely normal, upfront; and the rest of the sounds transparently arrayed behind him.
I experience focus in recording very close to a visuel experince, for example focussing a stereo microscope on a Shibata needle.
It is a kind of " Aha " experience as we call it in Germany.
It sharpens my senses, it can take me into a state of bliss.
When you have not experienced it you do not know it.
" You can not dance about achitecture ".http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/11/08/writing-about-music/
It is a kind of " Aha " experience as we call it in Germany.
It sharpens my senses, it can take me into a state of bliss.
When you have not experienced it you do not know it.
" You can not dance about achitecture ".http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/11/08/writing-about-music/
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I do as well, Joachim. This early HB recording is a true test of hi fi reproduction. If you have it close to right, then this recording can get you 'there', back in 1959, when Harry was at his best.
I noted this back in the late 1980's when I played this record set through my WATT-Puppies at the time. I was almost 'shocked' as to how I could just 'be' at the performance. It doesn't happen as often as I would like.
I noted this back in the late 1980's when I played this record set through my WATT-Puppies at the time. I was almost 'shocked' as to how I could just 'be' at the performance. It doesn't happen as often as I would like.
Yes, that early puppies had a real " snappy " sound.
There where a beast to setup and i never liked that tweeter.
One dealer from Graz though made them work on a show in Vienna.
I do not know what he did but the sharp treble was simply not a problem. The image was totally loose from the speakers.
With closed eyes i had difficulty to say where they are.
I think when you buy a Ferrari you have to be an excellent driver or you think it is a piece of crap, if you allow me that metafor.
There where a beast to setup and i never liked that tweeter.
One dealer from Graz though made them work on a show in Vienna.
I do not know what he did but the sharp treble was simply not a problem. The image was totally loose from the speakers.
With closed eyes i had difficulty to say where they are.
I think when you buy a Ferrari you have to be an excellent driver or you think it is a piece of crap, if you allow me that metafor.
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Trash the LP - well, what I mean is if you have the live version the "littleness" of the vinyl rendition is not really worth going to - they've captured a huge space in the second clip ... this is the sort of recording that deserves a setup capable of those 132dB peaks I've mentioned - arena sound in the best sense of the term ...Try this one, the Rega skips when the Tympani starts on he original Mangione version ......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBtxGiqqPTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f48X0KubvnQ
This is about conjuring up a huge space, part of the disappearing speakers thing. Even though the vast majority don't "get it", this is what Led Zep I will do if the system is up to it, vast realms of space will open up, that you can drive a Hummer through without any problem,
; the "stage" completely takes over your home.Edit: Think Lord of the Rings type places as a visual metaphor for the effect ...
It doesn't happen as often with digital, because its typical playback distortion artifacts cripple the critical components of the sound which allow that space to manifest - hence the ongoing "struggle" ...
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