There is no misunderstanding at all.
Joachim is testing twin midranges here. I'm interested in this.
The Allison effect of bass coupling to the floor, I hope we have all grasped. More interest.
Wide baffle. Another point of interest.
There's a lot in filter theory that suggests that twin midranges have a lot of applications, both as filler drivers and as pure mids.
The transfer function 1 - 2s + ss / 1 +2s +ss in simple LR2 might be interpreted in several ways. The 2s term is the midrange.
Is that 2s a single mid, or two mids in phase or antiphase, or one or two mids pointing sideways? Interesting stuff. My own notion is that whatever you do, there's still a trace of your interference in the signal process.
This particular conversation is at the very cutting edge of filter and driver design. It's as hard as quantum mechanics and string theory really. Because it's the same thing. If you don't understand it, then you will do well to be quiet and let the professionals get on with it. Sorry, but that is how it is.
Joachim is testing twin midranges here. I'm interested in this.
The Allison effect of bass coupling to the floor, I hope we have all grasped. More interest.
Wide baffle. Another point of interest.
There's a lot in filter theory that suggests that twin midranges have a lot of applications, both as filler drivers and as pure mids.
The transfer function 1 - 2s + ss / 1 +2s +ss in simple LR2 might be interpreted in several ways. The 2s term is the midrange.
Is that 2s a single mid, or two mids in phase or antiphase, or one or two mids pointing sideways? Interesting stuff. My own notion is that whatever you do, there's still a trace of your interference in the signal process.
This particular conversation is at the very cutting edge of filter and driver design. It's as hard as quantum mechanics and string theory really. Because it's the same thing. If you don't understand it, then you will do well to be quiet and let the professionals get on with it. Sorry, but that is how it is.
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If you don't understand it, then you will do well to be quiet and let the professionals get on with it. Sorry, but that is how it is.
This is not the tone that I am used to in this forum.
You are not allowed to call me a non-professional if you don't know me.
Starting point of Joachims thread was the refurbishung work that he did
on an old geman loudspeaker. "I renovated a Dual CL190 for a friend."
A low to medium priced speaker when it was new.
The main topic at the time was not quality. So with JGs knowledge and
ability it may indeed become "quintessentially" in the sense of a resumé.
This is how I understand it. This has nothing to to with quantum physics.
Nice that you compare yourself with the old german physicist giants.
Please keep in mind that some people on earth don't have english (pardon:
american) as their mothers language. I myself had to learn latin and greek
in school before starting with this fourth tongue. So please excuse my and
Joachims errors and misconceptions.
as, I am not trying to be arrogant here.
BUT, If you don't accept that loudspeakers have elements of quantum mechanics in them, then you really can't do the maths.
FWIW, you can fix the droop in the power response of LR4 very easily. But that adds sideways lobing. Why is that?
Seems like Mother Nature, or the laws of physics, gets her own back.
This forum is dedicated to the idea of building a perfect transducer in your living room. Well, read my lips, it cant be done with our current monkey coffin boxes. I haven't quite decided if there is some multi-element holographic solution.
But for all that, I read and learn a great deal from Joachim Gerhard, Lynn Olson and Troels Gravesen. Three of my current DIY heroes. And I think that history will treat Roy Allison kindly too.
BUT, If you don't accept that loudspeakers have elements of quantum mechanics in them, then you really can't do the maths.
FWIW, you can fix the droop in the power response of LR4 very easily. But that adds sideways lobing. Why is that?
Seems like Mother Nature, or the laws of physics, gets her own back.
This forum is dedicated to the idea of building a perfect transducer in your living room. Well, read my lips, it cant be done with our current monkey coffin boxes. I haven't quite decided if there is some multi-element holographic solution.
But for all that, I read and learn a great deal from Joachim Gerhard, Lynn Olson and Troels Gravesen. Three of my current DIY heroes. And I think that history will treat Roy Allison kindly too.
This is indeed new for me and if you can contribute to that I will be reading quietly, otherwise
Quantum mechanics to do the math of a loudspeaker? Perhaps string theory and black holes in the universe bear a better approach. If not then the multi-element holographic solution certainly will. I'm very optimistic.
Yes, system7, design a speaker with the help of quantum mechanics and i will read your thread with interrest.
Yes, of cause in the micro structure of the transfer function we can see effects that remind us on curves we see in higher mathematics.
The Dirac Imuls came from atomic reseach.
I could even extend that argument and how it leads us to Cepstrum Analysis and how to use wavelets to measure time storage.
Steve, mind you, as_audio is a well known professional that studied engineering.
I have great respect for this man and learned a heck of a lot of practical things from him.
His analysis of my work is near impaccable.
May be it really boils down to that old language problem.
Somehow deep inside nobody understands me anyway, if he talks in German or not
Yes, of cause in the micro structure of the transfer function we can see effects that remind us on curves we see in higher mathematics.
The Dirac Imuls came from atomic reseach.
I could even extend that argument and how it leads us to Cepstrum Analysis and how to use wavelets to measure time storage.
Steve, mind you, as_audio is a well known professional that studied engineering.
I have great respect for this man and learned a heck of a lot of practical things from him.
His analysis of my work is near impaccable.
May be it really boils down to that old language problem.
Somehow deep inside nobody understands me anyway, if he talks in German or not
Well, maybe i chose the title of this thread wrong.
The speaker how it came out certainly also has american genes :
The Allison arrangement, the excact size of the Boston A400, maybe a certain warmth in the midrange we could call english.
Heck, i even have french ancesters.
My grandmother from my farthers side came from a huguenot family and i was raises as a catholic.
I like italien and japanese food.
My designs where influenced a lot from the scandinavians and so it goes.
I am even not particular proud to be a german but i am one nevertheless.
OK, this is the lounge now, again....
The speaker how it came out certainly also has american genes :
The Allison arrangement, the excact size of the Boston A400, maybe a certain warmth in the midrange we could call english.
Heck, i even have french ancesters.
My grandmother from my farthers side came from a huguenot family and i was raises as a catholic.
I like italien and japanese food.
My designs where influenced a lot from the scandinavians and so it goes.
I am even not particular proud to be a german but i am one nevertheless.
OK, this is the lounge now, again....
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It's the seventies (aka 70s or 1970s) not the 70th, Joachim!
Having a bad day Sys?
If there are quantum-mechanical effects (that are measurable and/or audible) in loudspeakers, I would very much like to know about them. Magnetically saturated regions in the magnet and pole-piece, or charge migration across electrostatic diaphragms, perhaps?
From what little I know, loudspeakers are mechanically crude devices that are unfortunately hard against the limits of materials science ... make advancements there, and the results will be better (if people are willing to pay for it). We could really use better diaphragm materials, but it's been a long hard slog since the original Rice & Kellog dynamic speaker dating back to the late Twenties.
It's nice that we have (much) better filter theory and very sophisticated computer modeling these days. What was astronomically expensive for KEF in the mid-Seventies is now readily available on any Windows PC or even as iOS apps for handheld devices.
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I do not know what to say.
I learned that quantum effects are happening in the micro world and relativity is in cosmic
dimensions.
Both is not direct observable for us human beings, living in a macro world.
Say you are an Aboriginal 200 years ago.
You have no idea that quantum mechanics or relativity exists but you can throw your boomerang just fine so Newton works in the " real " world.
I think classical physics are sufficient to describe a loudspeaker.
I am not a mathematician so i can not decide if algorithms used in quantum mechanics are usefull.
If there is a practical case where somebody made a speaker with the help of those algorithms i do not know it. That does not mean that is does not exist. It certainly slipped my attention though.
I learned that quantum effects are happening in the micro world and relativity is in cosmic
dimensions.
Both is not direct observable for us human beings, living in a macro world.
Say you are an Aboriginal 200 years ago.
You have no idea that quantum mechanics or relativity exists but you can throw your boomerang just fine so Newton works in the " real " world.
I think classical physics are sufficient to describe a loudspeaker.
I am not a mathematician so i can not decide if algorithms used in quantum mechanics are usefull.
If there is a practical case where somebody made a speaker with the help of those algorithms i do not know it. That does not mean that is does not exist. It certainly slipped my attention though.
In material science i have great hope that the various kinds of carbon can be helpfull.
We already have artifcial diamond for tweeters.
I made tweeter domes in the late 80s from amorphous diamond.
Have them still so i can make a picture. Yes, i was first as far as i know.
A friend of mine makes membranes with carbon nanotubes, another sputters a layer of artifical diamond over a core of aluminum oxite so he can also make woofer and midrange membranes.
WBT have new binding posts where they put a layer of grafen over an aluminum core.
There are more examples.
We already have artifcial diamond for tweeters.
I made tweeter domes in the late 80s from amorphous diamond.
Have them still so i can make a picture. Yes, i was first as far as i know.
A friend of mine makes membranes with carbon nanotubes, another sputters a layer of artifical diamond over a core of aluminum oxite so he can also make woofer and midrange membranes.
WBT have new binding posts where they put a layer of grafen over an aluminum core.
There are more examples.
In the late 80s I used to listen to music (the reproduced one, of course !!) with a pair of Allison Four
About quantum mechanics in LS science, I agree with Steve!
I don't have a clue about the argument or what he's talking about, thou..
BUT ! If you take ( as it gets ! ) the whole audible spectrum and you divide it into parts and you notice somethingh is missing, it could be that it "hides" but it
is not certainly "dead". Was it the cat someone was referring to ?
And, as the imaginary field is very complex and how the sound propagates in ambient to reach our head, nobody can dismiss this theory just by saying that the guy is rude or that have started the day with the wrong foot.
Double sidefiring midrange ? Steve, you must have been staying in bed !
About quantum mechanics in LS science, I agree with Steve!
I don't have a clue about the argument or what he's talking about, thou..
BUT ! If you take ( as it gets ! ) the whole audible spectrum and you divide it into parts and you notice somethingh is missing, it could be that it "hides" but it
is not certainly "dead". Was it the cat someone was referring to ?
And, as the imaginary field is very complex
and how the sound propagates in ambient to reach our head, nobody can dismiss this theory just by saying that the guy is rude or that have started the day with the wrong foot.Double sidefiring midrange ? Steve, you must have been staying in bed !
Could you link to the specifics? I haven't built speakers for 30+ years so please - bear with me
. Joachim - I'm sure of that you can rebuild cartridges Regards
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