Pono
And at full retail of $399 the Pono Player is 60% of that one. And it also has a decent chance of having very good audio, having been designed by Ayre. I've never heard of the Colorfly company, nor do I know anything about it's topology or sound.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
And at full retail of $399 the Pono Player is 60% of that one. And it also has a decent chance of having very good audio, having been designed by Ayre. I've never heard of the Colorfly company, nor do I know anything about it's topology or sound.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Pono & headphones
The Ayre engineers seemed to actually have that market in mind, Steve: they put two outputs on the Pono, one specifically designed to drive headphones, and the other optimized as a line out for system interfacing. I don't see any incompatibility issues between the Pono and high-end headphones. Do you mean the impedance and max voltage drive capability? Can you clarify?
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
The Ayre engineers seemed to actually have that market in mind, Steve: they put two outputs on the Pono, one specifically designed to drive headphones, and the other optimized as a line out for system interfacing. I don't see any incompatibility issues between the Pono and high-end headphones. Do you mean the impedance and max voltage drive capability? Can you clarify?
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
128GB is a good running start at a practical device. Anything much less than a couple hundred CD's on board would be impractical for somebody who really listens to music - shuffling albums in and out strikes me as yet another modern nonsense. I wouldn't mind the initial CD ripping and transfer, but that'd have to be the end of the process for quite a while.
Personally, I'd love to have a walk around music library, even if I'd very rarely use headphones. Thanks for the heads-up!
Chris
Personally, I'd love to have a walk around music library, even if I'd very rarely use headphones. Thanks for the heads-up!
Chris
What I'm saying is that there have been high end portable headphone amps on the market that are as good or better than the Pono for some time now.
se
Pono & Headphones
Ahh, yeah, you are right there, I'm interested in just how good the headphone amp Ayre designed into the Pono is...of course, I don't know of another high-quality headphone amp in a small case with a 128GB all-format media player like the Pono...maybe the Astell & Kern, maybe the Colorfly? It would be interesting to test the bunch...it is an emerging product segment. And the Pono is the least expensive of the bunch too, so a comparison would be good to see.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Ahh, yeah, you are right there, I'm interested in just how good the headphone amp Ayre designed into the Pono is...of course, I don't know of another high-quality headphone amp in a small case with a 128GB all-format media player like the Pono...maybe the Astell & Kern, maybe the Colorfly? It would be interesting to test the bunch...it is an emerging product segment. And the Pono is the least expensive of the bunch too, so a comparison would be good to see.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
I have read that those who invested in the Kickstarter promotion will be able to purchase them for $200 and after that the retail price is going to be $400 so not exactly cheap but similar to a large Ipod storage unit without the limitations of the Ipod. I say those who say nobody cares about audio quality are just going by what has been foisted on the public now since Apple came out with the Ipod and got in bed with the record companies and wanted to limit quality with their unfounded fear that better quality would lead to unlimited copying of music. We have seen that this stupidity did not stop that practice any more than when we all had tape decks and copied each others albums, that did not stop us from purchasing those albums though.
I really believe that quality will make a comeback when better headphones start to compete with the crummy fashion headphones such as the Beats headphones and it start to restart the listening to music as it should be. To many people have seemed to forget that even the unenlightened can hear the difference with no training or understanding of the underlying technology, once you hear music in a better format it becomes obvious to anyone unless you have a tin ear. It seems a little arrogant to think that only those of us here can appreciate good sound, I have found that not to be the case as soon as I play music on my speakers for the very young, they notice the difference immediately.
I really believe that quality will make a comeback when better headphones start to compete with the crummy fashion headphones such as the Beats headphones and it start to restart the listening to music as it should be. To many people have seemed to forget that even the unenlightened can hear the difference with no training or understanding of the underlying technology, once you hear music in a better format it becomes obvious to anyone unless you have a tin ear. It seems a little arrogant to think that only those of us here can appreciate good sound, I have found that not to be the case as soon as I play music on my speakers for the very young, they notice the difference immediately.
Nelson,
That is my point, once one company ups the ante then others must follow or lose market share. Once people get away from the simple MP3 format then hopefully we will all see this spread. We need to get away from the "B..e" paradigm of what you don't hear you won't miss and bring back fidelity. I for one am hopeful that a rebirth of audio is about to begin. Now we need more artists like Neil Young and others to demand better sound for their own creations, perhaps that is asking to much!
That is my point, once one company ups the ante then others must follow or lose market share. Once people get away from the simple MP3 format then hopefully we will all see this spread. We need to get away from the "B..e" paradigm of what you don't hear you won't miss and bring back fidelity. I for one am hopeful that a rebirth of audio is about to begin. Now we need more artists like Neil Young and others to demand better sound for their own creations, perhaps that is asking to much!
The large memory is a real draw, and makes it more practical to use lossless formats. But, I've got a Sansa Clip (had a Fuze until it was stolen), which has a micro-SD slot, and which plays FLAC, MP3, Ogg, WAV, etc. Combined with a DIY O2 portable headphone amp it drives my AKG's just fine, and blows the doors off any iPod. The Clip has consistently been rated one of the best sounding PMP's (see anythingbutipod.com). Do we really think that a $400 player will change the market more than a $69 player that plays lossless formats and outperforms the competition?
PS: I'll consider a Pono when RockBox has been ported to it!
I remember investing in Transmeta....
If the Pono starts to gain traction you can bet that Apple will step up its
offerings in this area.
By Buying Pono ...
Nezblue,
I think it will have a lot to do with how much publicity the Pono can generate. Social media is such a powerful thing today that you can't discount the pull of the right celebrities, otherwise explain the explosive growth of the Beats headphones, they don't sound any better than a cheap Sony headphone but are far outselling those from Sony.
Sanza is just invisible to these people and they are also into the latest fads, but this will go beyond a fad if people start moving away from the MP3 format, that seems to have singlehandedly destroyed sound quality for the masses. Why we went backwards from the redbook standard can be placed on the laps of Apple, this was Steve Jobs marketing at its best. Convenience trumped quality and now perhaps someone can bring back the quality with the convenience. I don't expect these people to build an O2 amplifier but I bet the right company could market the same device in a tin can and make a fortune as if it was something new. Marketing is king.
I think it will have a lot to do with how much publicity the Pono can generate. Social media is such a powerful thing today that you can't discount the pull of the right celebrities, otherwise explain the explosive growth of the Beats headphones, they don't sound any better than a cheap Sony headphone but are far outselling those from Sony.
Sanza is just invisible to these people and they are also into the latest fads, but this will go beyond a fad if people start moving away from the MP3 format, that seems to have singlehandedly destroyed sound quality for the masses. Why we went backwards from the redbook standard can be placed on the laps of Apple, this was Steve Jobs marketing at its best. Convenience trumped quality and now perhaps someone can bring back the quality with the convenience. I don't expect these people to build an O2 amplifier but I bet the right company could market the same device in a tin can and make a fortune as if it was something new. Marketing is king.
Bigger file formats for sure, but no evidence known to me that bigger (faster, more bits) equals better perceived sound. Plenty of technical arguments the other way that 16/44.1k is good enough as a delivery format.
The Ponoplayer's strength that I can see is that the post-DAC stage is engineered by Charles Hansen. However the noisy ESS DAC lets it down and rather nullifies CH's marketing claims about feedback being bad for SQ being as it is a S-D design utilizing tons of feedback. Go figure.
Richard,
I have a hard time believing that the MP3 format is equal to the redbook standard. They sound nothing like a cd quality sound to me, something just doesn't compute on that front. I won't argue the need for better than redbook, perhaps 24 bit is better than 16 bit but the science I have been pointed to say no? MP3 sounds like a poor quality transistor radio to me!
I have a hard time believing that the MP3 format is equal to the redbook standard. They sound nothing like a cd quality sound to me, something just doesn't compute on that front. I won't argue the need for better than redbook, perhaps 24 bit is better than 16 bit but the science I have been pointed to say no? MP3 sounds like a poor quality transistor radio to me!
Steven - firstly MP3 comes in various flavours (bitrates). Which bitrate have you been listening to? I wasn't arguing that 128k MP3 was a good enough delivery format, rather that non-lossy compressed RBCD (FLAC) was good enough. I rather suspect that VBR MP3 (around 192kbits/s) is going to be good enough for most, but this is only speculation I haven't tried it out recently myself.
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Richard,
I guess I can't answer your question. The only time I ever listen to an MP3 is when someone else has recorded with that format and tried to have me listen to it. I quickly say turn that off, I just can't listen to whatever format that MP3 must have been recorded with, I have never heard an MP3 I could listen to, and that is not hyperbole. I could listen to a standard redbook cd that is well recorded without a real problem, there are plenty that are atrociously recorded but I lay the blame on that with the recording engineer or the mastering engineer and not the format. There really isn't any reason to have file size larger than necessary, but the Ipod level sound just doesn't work for me, not interested in listening to music on that player myself. Now I have been told that you could record on an Ipod in other than an MP3 format but anyone I have ever asked looks at me funny and says what are you talking about! I do not want to listen to a lossy format, that is just stupid with today's storage volume capabilities. I can get a 1TB disk drive for $70.00 today, why should I worry about file size on a computer system and even a portable system today?
I guess I can't answer your question. The only time I ever listen to an MP3 is when someone else has recorded with that format and tried to have me listen to it. I quickly say turn that off, I just can't listen to whatever format that MP3 must have been recorded with, I have never heard an MP3 I could listen to, and that is not hyperbole. I could listen to a standard redbook cd that is well recorded without a real problem, there are plenty that are atrociously recorded but I lay the blame on that with the recording engineer or the mastering engineer and not the format. There really isn't any reason to have file size larger than necessary, but the Ipod level sound just doesn't work for me, not interested in listening to music on that player myself. Now I have been told that you could record on an Ipod in other than an MP3 format but anyone I have ever asked looks at me funny and says what are you talking about! I do not want to listen to a lossy format, that is just stupid with today's storage volume capabilities. I can get a 1TB disk drive for $70.00 today, why should I worry about file size on a computer system and even a portable system today?
An audio friend that I've been visiting for some years has jumped on the player bandwagon, he now uses Cowon players as an almost exclusive digital source - the tweaked Quad CD player is gathering dust badly! In listening tests the tiny player is way in front of the mechanical beast, driving the main system - in comparisons of highly tuned vinyl and the Cowon, the latter usually wins, especially on dynamics and level of detail.
The downside is, as always, that everything matters - he has a simple buffer between the player and the Naim amp, which gives optimal quality. And precisely how the Cowon is powered, and configured, and positioned changes things - you can't get away from tweaking ... !
The downside is, as always, that everything matters - he has a simple buffer between the player and the Naim amp, which gives optimal quality. And precisely how the Cowon is powered, and configured, and positioned changes things - you can't get away from tweaking ...
!
Sad thing is, all Pono is doing is promoting a numbers game. They're doing nothing with regard to actual recording quality. Whoopie. Now you can listen to horribly compressed music at 24/192.
se
The devil's in the detail, as always. I only have used LAME to create MP3s, the encoder does matter, as does the decoder. 'iPod level sound' though is more to do with the DAC (S-D DACs add copious noise modulation) and analog circuits (yet more noise modulation) than the lossy compression, provided we're talking 192k rates and above.
Strangely (or not) ........
My MP3 player displays bitrate
and it jumps all around ?
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