This is still a fantastic speaker and a fantastic replica. Dustcaps are so easy to replace. I can do it in 5 minutes with some black speaker glue. The sparkle might be part of the attraction, I don't know. I don't use aluminum dust caps for mine.
Last edited:
Like the picture in the link to the Max speaker a few posts earlier, I really feel the 12p80nd, and its substitutes, need something extra. With the Minidsp 4x10HD I can pop in anything I like between 500-1500Hz. I started out with a 2" soft dome - Hivi TM1A. It sounded like barf. I then tried the 6.5" Beyma 6M100. It really added something that was missing before. But the 6M100 is a PA speaker and not suitable to go as high as 1500Hz with 12dB LR. The sound is a little dull and boring, and next step is to introduce some compression drivers in the mix. I will report back! The Bohlender Neo10 would be suitable here, but some say it is boring and cold. RD75 is apparently Bohlenders best speaker to have. I have not heard any of them yet.
Oh, and ribbon drivers can give you much more clarity above 3500Hz. But I still need the TPL-150 below, because nothing else I have heard comes close.
I will audition the RD75 in a month or so. I really believe it can beat the TPL-150, since the TPL-150 can sound so dull next to a ribbon driver. It is like the NASA material is swallowing the top frequencies. Which is a shame, but we do get a clear and high efficiency speaker between 1500Hz - 4000Hz, that plays nice with single ended tube amps. And is more portable and easy to ship than a 2m tall iron magnet.
Taking the back off the TPL-150 opens it up a lot. I run it in dipole now, but someone said the Mundorf AMT is much better for dipole since it is smaller and has a wider vertical dispersion (which needs absorption material in the floor and ceiling). The RD75 is 2 meter high and send out its dispersion straight out, with no reflection in floor and ceiling - i.e. less to correct with these awful room correction plugins!
But running dipole for high frequency makes it diffcult to combine with the bass speakers. Closed enclosures does not work as good as open baffle, but open baffle does not have enough bass, not even when running 21" Beyma drivers in line array.
I am basing all this about dipoles on talks with StigErik, here on DIYaudio. I will audition his gigantic dipole system soon, and I am very excited!
Last edited:
The fact that i use now basically just two ways to cover almost the whole frequency range , from 50hz, to 20khz, with just one crossover point, is something that brings much more coherence , its almost as a point source. I became aware of the advantage specially in regard of the fact, that there is no crossover point in the 150hz region, as it was before between the lower midrange horn, and the bass line array. Its really all about which compromise you accept more. I have a midrange horn channel, with Coral M100 compression driver, which covers from ~ 400hz up , but i have not the feeling that it adds clarity in a significant way in the lower midrange. I use it with a Lpad, almost closed. It just adds a littlebit soundstage, but in a unsignificant way. Its just to give a little more flavour into the menue. I admire Ged Lee for his Summa, because its basically also 2 ways. Similar to my end solution. The advantage of this is very evident to me now.
It took me a day, but I threw in a new 1" Beyma compression driver with some sort of plastic diaphragm. It sounds very different from the Beyma 6M100 when used between 400 (LR48dB) and 1400Hz (BW18dB). It adds a lot of clarity that was not there before. Not very dull and boring!
Again, it is a 1" and should not be crossed this low, 800Hz is the lowest, but 1.2 is better, but I am just watching movies today and listening to slow jazz at moderate volume. I have really missed my compression drivers. Next up is the 2" Goto horn with JA6881B. Need to fix that soon!
As you say, it is just another flavour. I love having the system like this. I can change XO and lower midrange driver in 10 minutes! If I have a party with some metalheads, maybe I will use the 6M100 again. Cocktail party - horns for sure.
Again, it is a 1" and should not be crossed this low, 800Hz is the lowest, but 1.2 is better, but I am just watching movies today and listening to slow jazz at moderate volume. I have really missed my compression drivers. Next up is the 2" Goto horn with JA6881B. Need to fix that soon!
As you say, it is just another flavour. I love having the system like this. I can change XO and lower midrange driver in 10 minutes! If I have a party with some metalheads, maybe I will use the 6M100 again. Cocktail party - horns for sure.
Attachments
Last edited:
I keep thinking about StigErik's 21" Beyma line array that he crosses to 200Hz, and then continues with RD75. He tried a smaller SEAS cone driver but it sounded better with just the Beymas.
The RD75 is probably free from compression driver distortion. I need to stop speculating about this and just wait and hear his setup.
I just did an A/B test and my test subject (gf again) says TPL-150 has more bass than the compression driver, even though the compression driver goes to 800Hz. I thought it was funny because, Angelo, you said the same thing in the beginning, if I remember correct.
She can also not distinguish which one cost 300 Euro and which one cost 50Euro. They both sound really good. As long as they have a ribbon tweeter filling in on the top and a nice 12" (not a celestion). We did slow songs. Now with Perfect Circle - Brena, the compression driver starts to cut in the ear.
She can also not distinguish which one cost 300 Euro and which one cost 50Euro. They both sound really good. As long as they have a ribbon tweeter filling in on the top and a nice 12" (not a celestion). We did slow songs. Now with Perfect Circle - Brena, the compression driver starts to cut in the ear.
Last edited:
I have started comparing 1" + 2" CD in horns + a 12" driver, versus TPL-150 + 12". My thoughts are that though they can be sharp to listen to sometimes, there is nothing I have yet to hear anything that is better than compression drivers for jazz, classical and singer song writer music. The Avantgarde Trio/Romy the Cat design still holds up to new drivers like the AMT. I will always have a pair of compression driver speakers for critical listening to high quality and less complex music. It is just so alive!
Last edited:
In my view the virtues of the TPL shine specially, if you play voices, and where tone and timbre of midrange are important, and when you want to avoid hardness and agressiveness in the upper midrange, and play music for hours. If you play brass music, rock, jazz, eventually even classical music, compression drivers show their strengths with higher dinamics. It depends what you value more.
Or, it depends what I feel like. With the minidsp I can have 4 different setups controlled by the wheel on the front plate.
I will build two different speakers for music, and get some kind of switch for them at line level or speaker level. I would like to use the same amps for these two. I am not ready to give up any of them.
Movies tend to have so bad sound so I will probably just use sealed cone drivers and soft domes/AMT with some cheap 7.1 amp for a future home theater. Nothing fancy. I just need a boomy sealed subwoofer for listening to explosions and something simple that muffles the badly recorded voices and effects. Watched movies with the horn system last weekend and my ears are still bleeding.
I have been reading about the Hypex Ncore amps. People seem very excited about them, and apparently even some tube advocates has switched to Ncore. Then I hear some people cursing digital amps. I would understand if they meant the T amps. Tube amps sound fantastic, but there is a lot of coloration and hum, especially in Norway with our bad grounding.
I will build two different speakers for music, and get some kind of switch for them at line level or speaker level. I would like to use the same amps for these two. I am not ready to give up any of them.
Movies tend to have so bad sound so I will probably just use sealed cone drivers and soft domes/AMT with some cheap 7.1 amp for a future home theater. Nothing fancy. I just need a boomy sealed subwoofer for listening to explosions and something simple that muffles the badly recorded voices and effects. Watched movies with the horn system last weekend and my ears are still bleeding.
I have been reading about the Hypex Ncore amps. People seem very excited about them, and apparently even some tube advocates has switched to Ncore. Then I hear some people cursing digital amps. I would understand if they meant the T amps. Tube amps sound fantastic, but there is a lot of coloration and hum, especially in Norway with our bad grounding.
Last edited:
The TPL-150's range is just upper midrange, with somewhat crappy treble. So I just get a couple of thousand herz of usable frequency range, before something better can be used.
When I raised the volume on the 2" CD channel (XO@450Hz-2500Hz) while watching a movie yesterday everything was drowned in human voices. Somewhat distorted voices, yes, although Radian make pretty good ****. So far below where the TPL begin to play there is a lot of detailed information.
I lived without a proper midrange for a while, and I really tried to believe Angelo that a 12" was enough. Once you compare A/B, the evidence is so clear - you need something that is specialized for 500-1400Hz and 9kHz-20kHz when using the TPL-150. The lower midrange is such an important range. Actually 300-5000Hz is the most important range of human hearing => again, midbass AMT or 2" CD. The Bohlender Neo10 and RD75 seem nice, and if I never succeed with the midbass AMT I can always fall back on actually e x i s t i n g speakers. I know Angelo also wants a third speaker like the bass AMT. I am writing about living with the compromise of a just having a 12" and a TPL-150 with a sub.
Who knows I might send him a pair of bass AMTs for the cost of the magnets and material.
The 2" CD really does a great job. When playing intense music like rock and metal, one can always "mid scoop" the EQ to avoid distortion.
When I raised the volume on the 2" CD channel (XO@450Hz-2500Hz) while watching a movie yesterday everything was drowned in human voices. Somewhat distorted voices, yes, although Radian make pretty good ****. So far below where the TPL begin to play there is a lot of detailed information.
I lived without a proper midrange for a while, and I really tried to believe Angelo that a 12" was enough. Once you compare A/B, the evidence is so clear - you need something that is specialized for 500-1400Hz and 9kHz-20kHz when using the TPL-150. The lower midrange is such an important range. Actually 300-5000Hz is the most important range of human hearing => again, midbass AMT or 2" CD. The Bohlender Neo10 and RD75 seem nice, and if I never succeed with the midbass AMT I can always fall back on actually e x i s t i n g speakers. I know Angelo also wants a third speaker like the bass AMT. I am writing about living with the compromise of a just having a 12" and a TPL-150 with a sub.
Who knows I might send him a pair of bass AMTs for the cost of the magnets and material.
The 2" CD really does a great job. When playing intense music like rock and metal, one can always "mid scoop" the EQ to avoid distortion.
Last edited:
On this guys graphs it looks shaky under 1200Hz. Hi-End and Hi-Eff loudspeakers system 2
He came to his senses and crossed it at 1200Hz (or above).
I can try it now.
I did a quick frequency sweep on youtube (Hearing Test 2 - YouTube) and with LR48dB@100Hz I just start to hear something at 400Hz, it is very low at 500Hz, 700Hz is halfway followed by speaking level at 1-2kHz. After 16kHz it is pretty quiet. I am running dipole without a back so it is not good test conditions to compare to a graph where a back cover was used. Also, I could have found something better than youtube...
Last edited:
Anyone looking for Western Electric 555W? 1000 GPB for a pair.
PRISTINE PAIR VINTAGE WESTERN ELECTRIC 555W HORN DRIVER | eBay
PRISTINE PAIR VINTAGE WESTERN ELECTRIC 555W HORN DRIVER | eBay
No, it is still there. Go to eBay - one of the UK's largest shopping destinations and search for "555w"
Seller has no feedback. Make sure to communicate through ebay, not e-mail, and pay via ebay and Paypal. If he is a fraud you will get your money back this way. Happened to me a few times with other sellers.
Seller has no feedback. Make sure to communicate through ebay, not e-mail, and pay via ebay and Paypal. If he is a fraud you will get your money back this way. Happened to me a few times with other sellers.
Last edited:
Someone posted following over Facebook, " the hornloudspeaker forum" :
https://www.facebook.com/groups/614272918584739/
Arāsh Najāfi
once upon a time I was buried in CD and Horns, form TAD and Radian to BMS and Faital pro and vitavox, and from JMLC to Stereo-lab, Tractrix, Spherical, BLHs, ... I used to think I was walking on the line but once I heard Beyma TPL-150H I found out "Horns have some kind of honkiness as if sound comes out of a pipe!" nevertheless how much $$ you put on CD and horn. and further more I heard Beyma 12P80ND and I'm still amazed how natural and open and accurate they sound in midrange, I think it's what I've been looking for a long time, direct radiating driver with a CD sensitivity!
Arāsh Najāfi I didn't intent to belittle horns, I a big fan of horns and always preferred them to other speakers, I also have heard many well designed horns like AG, Acapella, Cessaro, Bluemenhofer, ... and some of them are among the best speakers on the planet in the matter of accuracy and micro details and dynamics, ... but what I'm saying is that even these horns may benefit using a product like TPL-150H I'm just amazed why AG used a ~150USD CD from Beyma as a tweeter while TPL-150H performs superb and I think it's all about $$.
one thing more, listen to a Daniel Hertz M1 speaker (all Beyma speaker).
https://www.facebook.com/groups/614272918584739/
Arāsh Najāfi
once upon a time I was buried in CD and Horns, form TAD and Radian to BMS and Faital pro and vitavox, and from JMLC to Stereo-lab, Tractrix, Spherical, BLHs, ... I used to think I was walking on the line but once I heard Beyma TPL-150H I found out "Horns have some kind of honkiness as if sound comes out of a pipe!" nevertheless how much $$ you put on CD and horn. and further more I heard Beyma 12P80ND and I'm still amazed how natural and open and accurate they sound in midrange, I think it's what I've been looking for a long time, direct radiating driver with a CD sensitivity!
Arāsh Najāfi I didn't intent to belittle horns, I a big fan of horns and always preferred them to other speakers, I also have heard many well designed horns like AG, Acapella, Cessaro, Bluemenhofer, ... and some of them are among the best speakers on the planet in the matter of accuracy and micro details and dynamics, ... but what I'm saying is that even these horns may benefit using a product like TPL-150H I'm just amazed why AG used a ~150USD CD from Beyma as a tweeter while TPL-150H performs superb and I think it's all about $$.
one thing more, listen to a Daniel Hertz M1 speaker (all Beyma speaker).