A is a Marantz SR220
B is a VSPS300, user supplied parts, not the kit.
A measure of the frequency response delta was obtained by taking nominally identical 1s clips from each recording and taking the difference in the FFT data.
As most of you observed the Marantz has a +2 dB lift of the treble frequencies centered at 10 kHz. It sounds more lively and open, and surface noise is more prominent. The VSPS300 actually has a greater response above 10 kHz though, partly because of the 4th time constant built in to the RIAA eq., and partly because the Marantz rolls off the extreme treble.
The VSPS300 will be perceived to have stronger bass response. I also think it has better stereo separation.
The recording was made when the VSPS had had barely 3-4h of burn in time. Part of the reason it sounds "congested" (and I concur with that assessment) can be put down to the electrolytics not having had sufficient break in time. The rest would come to the treble lift of the Marantz.
For the record, I'm actually quite impressed with the Marantz, it sounds nice. On closer evaluation though I felt it was perhaps a bit harsh and I came to prefer the smoother, more rhythmic drive of the VSPS. I was never doing this blind though: I always knew which was which. It's far harder to pick out differences when you have no idea where to start. You guys are good!
I double-checked the VSPS circuit in LTSpice and indeed the response accurately follows the RIAA+AW response curve to <0.5 dB with the standard BOM parts. Even allowing 5% tolerance in the RIAA cap values, it cannot move 2 dB. So the response error (barring something really odd in that particular VSPS build) is on the side of the Marantz. It might have been a mistake, but it might just as likely have been designed to sound that way.
B is a VSPS300, user supplied parts, not the kit.
A measure of the frequency response delta was obtained by taking nominally identical 1s clips from each recording and taking the difference in the FFT data.
As most of you observed the Marantz has a +2 dB lift of the treble frequencies centered at 10 kHz. It sounds more lively and open, and surface noise is more prominent. The VSPS300 actually has a greater response above 10 kHz though, partly because of the 4th time constant built in to the RIAA eq., and partly because the Marantz rolls off the extreme treble.
The VSPS300 will be perceived to have stronger bass response. I also think it has better stereo separation.
The recording was made when the VSPS had had barely 3-4h of burn in time. Part of the reason it sounds "congested" (and I concur with that assessment) can be put down to the electrolytics not having had sufficient break in time. The rest would come to the treble lift of the Marantz.
For the record, I'm actually quite impressed with the Marantz, it sounds nice. On closer evaluation though I felt it was perhaps a bit harsh and I came to prefer the smoother, more rhythmic drive of the VSPS. I was never doing this blind though: I always knew which was which. It's far harder to pick out differences when you have no idea where to start. You guys are good!
I double-checked the VSPS circuit in LTSpice and indeed the response accurately follows the RIAA+AW response curve to <0.5 dB with the standard BOM parts. Even allowing 5% tolerance in the RIAA cap values, it cannot move 2 dB. So the response error (barring something really odd in that particular VSPS build) is on the side of the Marantz. It might have been a mistake, but it might just as likely have been designed to sound that way.
Attachments
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VSPS300 simulated frequency response (BOM)
LTSpice simulation, output compared to standard RIAA curve.
LTSpice simulation, output compared to standard RIAA curve.
Attachments
Not really. You heard what I heard, you just choose to put a slightly more positive spin on sound of the Marantz. Which is anyway far from bad, I think.
I don't know the details of the upstream components. One detail I forgot to mention earlier is the VSPS300 was built using NE5534 op amps rather than OPA27.
I don't know the details of the upstream components. One detail I forgot to mention earlier is the VSPS300 was built using NE5534 op amps rather than OPA27.
Background story to this:
I get a distress call, as I often do. This time, someone wanted to know if there was a problem with their VSPS300 (my boards, their parts, NE5534 and NOS Russian caps) as it appeared to sound rolled off in the treble.
The first set of audio files I was sent, the Marantz seemed bright and lively where the VSPS was indeed rolled off, or at least "odd" in the treble response. I admit I preferred the Marantz.
After confirming that the RIAA values were correct, and changing the caps C1-3 to no particular effect, we discovered that some resistors in the X-reg were incorrect leading to the V+,V- voltage to the opamps being only +/-3.5 V. This is within the datasheet operating limits for the NE5534, but far from ideal.
The VSPS300 with the X-reg repaired (the file you all heard) sounded better but not, I would say, fundamentally different in response. Just that the sense of drive was restored, with more energy across all frequencies. I switched my preference and declared that his VSPS300 was now working according to specification, suggesting the apparent suckout in the treble was most likely an artifact of using the Marantz as a reference. My hope is that the residual congestion will fade out after 48h or so burn in. In my experience, it usually does.
I trust my ears, but it was pretty subtle and I did I suppose have a vested interest in the outcome. Long and short of it is I decided to put it to an objective test. Google Drive makes this convenient. I would be nice if more people posted high quality recordings of their analog setup, I think it would be both fun and useful...
I get a distress call, as I often do. This time, someone wanted to know if there was a problem with their VSPS300 (my boards, their parts, NE5534 and NOS Russian caps) as it appeared to sound rolled off in the treble.
The first set of audio files I was sent, the Marantz seemed bright and lively where the VSPS was indeed rolled off, or at least "odd" in the treble response. I admit I preferred the Marantz.
After confirming that the RIAA values were correct, and changing the caps C1-3 to no particular effect, we discovered that some resistors in the X-reg were incorrect leading to the V+,V- voltage to the opamps being only +/-3.5 V. This is within the datasheet operating limits for the NE5534, but far from ideal.
The VSPS300 with the X-reg repaired (the file you all heard) sounded better but not, I would say, fundamentally different in response. Just that the sense of drive was restored, with more energy across all frequencies. I switched my preference and declared that his VSPS300 was now working according to specification, suggesting the apparent suckout in the treble was most likely an artifact of using the Marantz as a reference. My hope is that the residual congestion will fade out after 48h or so burn in. In my experience, it usually does.
I trust my ears, but it was pretty subtle and I did I suppose have a vested interest in the outcome. Long and short of it is I decided to put it to an objective test. Google Drive makes this convenient. I would be nice if more people posted high quality recordings of their analog setup, I think it would be both fun and useful...
Pretty interesting outcome. The +2dB lift (at 10Khz) on the Marantz is odd - perhaps a marketing trick. Just shows you how our ears can "deceive" us because of soundstage presentation, when comparing two products for sound-quality 
It also shows what kind of difference a cartridge can cause. If you have something like a Shure M97xe; you'll have a warmer sound. Going to an Audio Technica; you'll have a sound which has more high-end. (And we're not even comparing the so called "loading" here..)
It all depends on tastes. Still - the VSPS is hard to beat in terms of "bang for the buck". It gives an accurate representation of the music as it's "meant to be heard", has excellent noise specs and it's not too picky on parts. The VSPS is and stays a winner in my book
Edit: I'll try to get some analogue samples up as well - it's nice to be able to compare set-ups
It also shows what kind of difference a cartridge can cause. If you have something like a Shure M97xe; you'll have a warmer sound. Going to an Audio Technica; you'll have a sound which has more high-end. (And we're not even comparing the so called "loading" here..)
It all depends on tastes. Still - the VSPS is hard to beat in terms of "bang for the buck". It gives an accurate representation of the music as it's "meant to be heard", has excellent noise specs and it's not too picky on parts. The VSPS is and stays a winner in my book
Edit: I'll try to get some analogue samples up as well - it's nice to be able to compare set-ups
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As a final cross-check of my calculations, I drew up the LT1115 RIAA preamp circuit (here) in LTSpice and compared my calculated RIAA response (based on the LTspice output and my RIAA reference curve) to the published data.
In short, 100% agreement. We're all good.
@wirehead.be I gave that a quick listen last night. Same basic impression as the Master of Puppets files, the VSPS sounds smooth and solid, but less "presence"/air compared to e.g. an Youtube upload I happened to find to compare it with.
In short, 100% agreement. We're all good.
@wirehead.be I gave that a quick listen last night. Same basic impression as the Master of Puppets files, the VSPS sounds smooth and solid, but less "presence"/air compared to e.g. an Youtube upload I happened to find to compare it with.
Attachments
sounds very fine indeed. this is no criticism just an observation and my ears are not the best any more.
midband is a bit 'boxy/chesty' and rolled off extreme treble (no sizzle). but as i say i'm nit picking. it could be how the studio made the recording. it sounds a bit like when you tighten an RB300/250 nut to tight but without the smear.
It kinda sounds like the microphone was placed on the wrong side of the garage door.
(I kid, I kid!)
But it is a bit odd, like you are hearing them playing from just outside the venue. I agree with bibio in that "chesty" was one of the first adjectives that sprang to mind, but I'm not familiar enough with the recording to make any judgement with regards to the playback system.
(I kid, I kid!)
But it is a bit odd, like you are hearing them playing from just outside the venue. I agree with bibio in that "chesty" was one of the first adjectives that sprang to mind, but I'm not familiar enough with the recording to make any judgement with regards to the playback system.
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You're both right. Pixies might not be the best thing around to compare as well..
This was from a Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab pressing - so it's a decent pressing; but the recording itself is indeed "Garage Style" (Pixies had one of the lowest recording budgets around..). However, if you look around in reviews of the Grado, there's one thing that almost always pops up: the fact that their mid-range is pretty pronounced, and that the stereo-image isn't that wide.Which is exactly what you guys posted as well
Hats of to the VSPS DIT store power supply boards
I am looking for a generic diode bridge circuit board to use to build up bridges using Fairchild Stealth diodes. Building point to point on perfboard is possible but far from ideal working with TO220. I want to compare the GeneSIC briidges I have with the Chinese bridges Richard recommended and the stealth's.
Does anyone here know about how often stock is available for the out of stock DIY stuff. Seems to be a lot of out of stock items. Does anyone know of another source for diode boards?
Walt
I am looking for a generic diode bridge circuit board to use to build up bridges using Fairchild Stealth diodes. Building point to point on perfboard is possible but far from ideal working with TO220. I want to compare the GeneSIC briidges I have with the Chinese bridges Richard recommended and the stealth's.
Does anyone here know about how often stock is available for the out of stock DIY stuff. Seems to be a lot of out of stock items. Does anyone know of another source for diode boards?
Walt
I've sent you a PM Walt - might be interesting
I've also uploaded a new sample - way more representative, a recording of Pink Floyd. 1973 pressing. No processing - just fade-in & fade-out.
Link
Oh, by the way - the earlier sample of the Pixies got exported in mono.. that explains a lot.. I've re-uploaded it to the same link.
I've also uploaded a new sample - way more representative, a recording of Pink Floyd. 1973 pressing. No processing - just fade-in & fade-out.
Link
Oh, by the way - the earlier sample of the Pixies got exported in mono.. that explains a lot.. I've re-uploaded it to the same link.
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