Pano,
There are many speaker designers that tune smaller speakers to have a couple of dBs of extra boost at the bottom to create the illusion of deeper bass than the speaker can actually produce. This emphasis of the higher harmonics are often mistaken for the missing fundamental bass note. It's been a trick in the designer's kit for decades.
Best Regards,
Terrry
Im not talking about deep bass if deep bass I would rather go with 21 inch drivers or a good Bag end infrasub 18.
Pano you are right it will have that tight hit at the lower bass region but ends in the bass region. So here the midbass region will be tighter but the bass region it looses control but I believe I got the equations here..
I dont listen to the levels beyond 110db which I feel is pretty high for normal use. I am really not thinking of deep bass. If its deep bass I would talk only in the region less than 60Hz to down 4Hz or so... and we talk more spl at sub sonic frequencies..
I still think we need that super massive toroidal to do the job.
Pano you are right it will have that tight hit at the lower bass region but ends in the bass region. So here the midbass region will be tighter but the bass region it looses control but I believe I got the equations here..
I dont listen to the levels beyond 110db which I feel is pretty high for normal use. I am really not thinking of deep bass. If its deep bass I would talk only in the region less than 60Hz to down 4Hz or so... and we talk more spl at sub sonic frequencies..
I still think we need that super massive toroidal to do the job.
Well, if you think out of the box. You could go looking for a 1.5 kva medical data isolation transformer. Have it wound to provide your rails for the amplifier and add a 120 volt winding, isolated from the rest for system power. This will knock your noise floor down for the whole system and provide amplifier power too. You aren't going to run out of electrons....
Bud
Bud
You're right ... if nothing else is altered, and you can afford it, this is an 'easy' way to improve what we're talking about here ...
Frank
If you look at it you don't really need anything like that because in this region the driver is transferring most of its energy to the Helmholtz resonator and has a high electrical impedance. If you are using an L-T with substantial power input bellow resonance that is a different matter.
rcw
rcw
This reply is completely without foundation.
You seem to misunderstand all the fundamentals of audio signal reproduction.
yes, the musians and the producer sit together and listen to the mix. They tweak and slide until they hear what they want us to hear.i never use any kind of bass boost on my bass amp or equalizer , always flat that´s how it sounds correct to me
I consider it my responsibility to listen to what they (as a team) give me. No response anomalies and certainly no bass boost. No EQing filters to twist the response up/down/around.
I have tried 3 different builds of the same amplifier in my Hi-Fi system.
The amplifier is a Rauch DVT50s which is a 150w@8R / channel, lateral mosfet amp.
The orignal sounded very good, but was then was recapped as it was 25yrs old. Signal caps were replaced with Elna Silmics, Voltage caps with Panasonic FC, PSU caps with BHC. This changed the sound produced by the system conciderably. The bass was tighter and cleaner, and the overall timing and transient response of the system was very much improved.
The latest upgrade involved replacing the amplifier with another DVT50s - This one had been rebuilt by Ben Duncan himself in 2006.
Ben Duncan was one of the designers who worked on improving the original Rauch design, and is a world class audio 'guru'
Ben Duncan Research
This has the same sized powersupply and BHC caps but has 2 added small PSU toriodals supplying each driver board.
The Ben Duncan Modded Rauch amp is in another league. The Bass response is so different that the speakers needed to be totally repositioned in the room. Indeed the bass is so tight that the speakers are now as close to the wall as I can get them.
Point is this has been acheived with the same sized PSU - 500VA toriodal and 2 X 10,000uf reservior caps. The other mods are extensive - and involve many aspects of the amplifier design. There seems to be a lot of mods spent on improving the amplifiers rejection of RF.
There are very likely many incremental improvements that have been made. Most of which would be adressing characteristics of amplifier design that the majority of us would never have the skills or understanding to even concider.
The point I am trying to make is that I do not see any over riding aspect that will give iron fist bass - I understand that there are many aspects that affect amplifier performance, and the more of these that are competently adressed the better an amplifier will sound.
The amplifier is a Rauch DVT50s which is a 150w@8R / channel, lateral mosfet amp.
The orignal sounded very good, but was then was recapped as it was 25yrs old. Signal caps were replaced with Elna Silmics, Voltage caps with Panasonic FC, PSU caps with BHC. This changed the sound produced by the system conciderably. The bass was tighter and cleaner, and the overall timing and transient response of the system was very much improved.
The latest upgrade involved replacing the amplifier with another DVT50s - This one had been rebuilt by Ben Duncan himself in 2006.
Ben Duncan was one of the designers who worked on improving the original Rauch design, and is a world class audio 'guru'
Ben Duncan Research
This has the same sized powersupply and BHC caps but has 2 added small PSU toriodals supplying each driver board.
The Ben Duncan Modded Rauch amp is in another league. The Bass response is so different that the speakers needed to be totally repositioned in the room. Indeed the bass is so tight that the speakers are now as close to the wall as I can get them.
Point is this has been acheived with the same sized PSU - 500VA toriodal and 2 X 10,000uf reservior caps. The other mods are extensive - and involve many aspects of the amplifier design. There seems to be a lot of mods spent on improving the amplifiers rejection of RF.
There are very likely many incremental improvements that have been made. Most of which would be adressing characteristics of amplifier design that the majority of us would never have the skills or understanding to even concider.
The point I am trying to make is that I do not see any over riding aspect that will give iron fist bass - I understand that there are many aspects that affect amplifier performance, and the more of these that are competently adressed the better an amplifier will sound.
Ben Duncan Research
This has the same sized powersupply and BHC caps but has 2 added small PSU toriodals supplying each driver board.
The Ben Duncan Modded Rauch amp is in another league. The Bass response is so different that the speakers needed to be totally repositioned in the room. Indeed the bass is so tight that the speakers are now as close to the wall as I can get them.
Point is this has been acheived with the same sized PSU - 500VA toriodal and 2 X 10,000uf reservior caps. The other mods are extensive - and involve many aspects of the amplifier design. There seems to be a lot of mods spent on improving the amplifiers rejection of RF.
There are very likely many incremental improvements that have been made. Most of which would be adressing characteristics of amplifier design that the majority of us would never have the skills or understanding to even concider.
The point I am trying to make is that I do not see any over riding aspect that will give iron fist bass - I understand that there are many aspects that affect amplifier performance, and the more of these that are competently adressed the better an amplifier will sound.
...Frank
ahh, you think of fast bass guitar
now that is a very interesting subject
well , i´m a fast bass player
fast bass is the only that sounds good to me , next week i will have my mic and spl meter and then will start to see the freq response of my system and try to flat it down , i´m having difficulties with woofers and subwoofer integration with minidsp bass isnt tight and i need my fast bass
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funny to notice how much easier and faster bass playing becomes when the midrange integrates well with bass region
also, when playing long deep slow bass nodes they feel and hears much deeper and cleaner when hit exactly right, and the nodes integrates optimal with other tunes in the music
no need to say the instrument must be tuned 100% correct to hear this
just a bit off, and it gets more fluffy and muddy
I guess the right word would be 'smeared'
apparently there is a lot more to it than just heavy amps
also, when playing long deep slow bass nodes they feel and hears much deeper and cleaner when hit exactly right, and the nodes integrates optimal with other tunes in the music
no need to say the instrument must be tuned 100% correct to hear this
just a bit off, and it gets more fluffy and muddy
I guess the right word would be 'smeared'
apparently there is a lot more to it than just heavy amps
i have seen ice power they have all the detail but no life in it. Somehow like the discrete mosfet or BJT based amps.
Finally i found what was lurking in my mind since way long time... good psu. I always had a doubt why big psu has decent bass extension very close to undistorted sound..
I had a very interesting experience regarding the B&W c5 inearphone.
I ve experienced the Ironman 1st part where the F-22 Raptors chasing the Ironman...
Ohh man you have to see the bass extension you can say its easily that its way down to even less than 10Hz and no trace of STINT in bass...
now I always had this question why headphones have very controlled bass...
1. The driver is small enough and the moving mass is very very small hence better dynamics
2. The power required: Yes here the point comes in so in the worst case what is the maximum current the driver demands? may be few tens of milli amps? or may be few hundreds at max so there you have it without any issue and also mostly its a battery powered and very flat source...
The ability of the amp to feed the driver as much as it demands was the utmost important aspect ignored no matter at what level.
I had a experience talking to the legend Jeff Rowland asking about his amps ability to deliver the current required. Especially Concentra 2 and Model 8Ti .. and 8Ti High Current model..
I read about the concentra/Model 8Ti review where it was said in the review that there are many amps stints and results in soundstage shrinks but this amp doesnt stint and keeps the soundstage wide even at the lowest possible note....
They were actually based on LM3886 chips where..
concentra had 6 in BPA mode and 8Ti had double of that for each channel.
One distinct point is that how come other discrete amps not able to do that job? is it mostly by design?
One thing very much observed in the Jeff Rowlands amps is he uses super massive capacitors. I know they have nothing to do with the bass but why is he using such a big one cap per rail they seem like one big 100000uf capacitor.
What is that thing which is making the amp not to stint.
Finally i found what was lurking in my mind since way long time... good psu. I always had a doubt why big psu has decent bass extension very close to undistorted sound..
I had a very interesting experience regarding the B&W c5 inearphone.
I ve experienced the Ironman 1st part where the F-22 Raptors chasing the Ironman...
Ohh man you have to see the bass extension you can say its easily that its way down to even less than 10Hz and no trace of STINT in bass...
now I always had this question why headphones have very controlled bass...
1. The driver is small enough and the moving mass is very very small hence better dynamics
2. The power required: Yes here the point comes in so in the worst case what is the maximum current the driver demands? may be few tens of milli amps? or may be few hundreds at max so there you have it without any issue and also mostly its a battery powered and very flat source...
The ability of the amp to feed the driver as much as it demands was the utmost important aspect ignored no matter at what level.
I had a experience talking to the legend Jeff Rowland asking about his amps ability to deliver the current required. Especially Concentra 2 and Model 8Ti .. and 8Ti High Current model..
I read about the concentra/Model 8Ti review where it was said in the review that there are many amps stints and results in soundstage shrinks but this amp doesnt stint and keeps the soundstage wide even at the lowest possible note....
They were actually based on LM3886 chips where..
concentra had 6 in BPA mode and 8Ti had double of that for each channel.
One distinct point is that how come other discrete amps not able to do that job? is it mostly by design?
One thing very much observed in the Jeff Rowlands amps is he uses super massive capacitors. I know they have nothing to do with the bass but why is he using such a big one cap per rail they seem like one big 100000uf capacitor.
What is that thing which is making the amp not to stint.
well, I respect it, but find it a bit much effort just to reproduce a drum or simple machine bass
what you decribe is one note sound, and surely not from a bass
rythm is music too, surely
but then its a lot more than just a chest factor frequency
but talking about krell and the like in this context....its just too weird for me, sorry
anything simple and properly built will do it
its really a lot more about speakers
what you decribe is one note sound, and surely not from a bass
rythm is music too, surely
but then its a lot more than just a chest factor frequency
but talking about krell and the like in this context....its just too weird for me, sorry
anything simple and properly built will do it
its really a lot more about speakers
Seen, or heard?
The Icepower are a little difficult to drive, but if driven properly they have a flat response, low distortion, high damping factor and very neutral sound. They also handle complex loads well. If that is "no life", then I'm no sure what you are looking for.
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