I actually like the hydrogenaudio way - if someone claims an improvement or change, it must be accompanied by a proper proof, be it measurements, credible observation, or listening test. That is the way scientific research works. Unsupported claim like this sata cable would be torn to pieces, if someone actually bothered to pay attention.
All the science in the world could not let Philips or Sony or the million of other brands make a natural good sounding amplifier or speaker. Silver sata is not for the mainstream stereo sets or "thinkers" out there. Electronic schematics are "objective" enough to be fully supportive for conventional science which "demands" empirical objective measurements. Still there is a "hole" in the reasoning of this approach, for instance instruments of measurements are theory laden as they are hardware extensions of previous knowledge. They can not really measure things that are fully new, as they could not be designed for that. They can explore the old paradigm not the new. Digital is just as language, it works, but in fact it does not exist as it is assumed to be. Language and digital are conceptions which do not really exist as they are conceptualized. For digital it means that digital is pure analogue under "extreme" conditions. It is still current, voltage , the "old" electrons, resistance and the myriad other properties of good old analogue simulating the conceptions of zero and ones. And hay the simulation works! Remember the first computers were tube computers!. The idiotic idea that zero's and ones are like that and therefore invulnerable to gremlins which harass analogue is for fools only.
Besides that fool proof listening can never work, blind A/B testing is a myth in audio. Perfect for trying out a new medicine, worthless for audio in the high end. Indications are rough and cannot really predict who you will listen to it.. There are thousands out there who really prefer the spectacular in sound over set ups who sound natural like real life. The last is experienced as "dull" not vivid erghh it sounds like classical music. That their spectacular system sounds tiresome after a 30+ minutes real listening .. they will never know as they listen not that long, not that sincere or read. internet while listening. The only way is to listen for yourself, be sincere and enjoy when it sounds better and you can afford it.
Can you scientifically proof expensive "best" restaurants in the world are worth their name? And do not hide behind taste is subjective as their food is true and true sublime "hardware" that can truly objectively be measured
Besides that fool proof listening can never work, blind A/B testing is a myth in audio. Perfect for trying out a new medicine, worthless for audio in the high end. Indications are rough and cannot really predict who you will listen to it.. There are thousands out there who really prefer the spectacular in sound over set ups who sound natural like real life. The last is experienced as "dull" not vivid erghh it sounds like classical music. That their spectacular system sounds tiresome after a 30+ minutes real listening .. they will never know as they listen not that long, not that sincere or read. internet while listening. The only way is to listen for yourself, be sincere and enjoy when it sounds better and you can afford it.
Can you scientifically proof expensive "best" restaurants in the world are worth their name? And do not hide behind taste is subjective as their food is true and true sublime "hardware" that can truly objectively be measured
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Well, that's certainly true. If you can think, this is certainly not the product for you.
Yeah, but there is still the problem that this is a _SATA_ cable, not anything that actually could improve sound. Even if it somehow did improve noise and whatnot it still wouldn't matter since SATA uses error correction to ensure data integrity. And even if the cable somehow also improved latency it wouldn't matter either since the audio stream is buffered into the RAM before being sent to the audio device.
It's like if I would claim that if your listening couch is made out of purple velvet then you would have improved sound quality from your audio system.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
That are clocks in SATA BUS,
So jitter is defined as the difference in time between a data transition and the associated Reference Clock event for Gen1x, Gen2i and Gen2x
If you donot know Gen1x, Gen2i and Gen2x?
Don't ask me to proof why sata cable made sound different
Because even if I explain the sata working principle
And you will know nothing with sata still
I spend over 3 months & 10000USD to develop sata & usb cables
And used over 100000USD instruments for testing
The reason why is to make improvement with CAT
If you donot know sata cable make different sound yet
You are really live in the stone age
So jitter is defined as the difference in time between a data transition and the associated Reference Clock event for Gen1x, Gen2i and Gen2x
If you donot know Gen1x, Gen2i and Gen2x?
Don't ask me to proof why sata cable made sound different
Because even if I explain the sata working principle
And you will know nothing with sata still
I spend over 3 months & 10000USD to develop sata & usb cables
And used over 100000USD instruments for testing
The reason why is to make improvement with CAT
If you donot know sata cable make different sound yet
You are really live in the stone age
Yes I know the "reasoning" but through a cable is much more going on than just these "oreferred" existing purity of 0 and 1. Somethings else "rides" with it that is pure analogue. it even survives buffering in memory and in the end the DAC passes it effects true to its analogue outputs. Sounds like science fiction I know, but how can you explain that differences in USB cable and the quality of the pws of hdd can be heard if these "error corrections" would take care of "all "things? Ah well I will not go into this as it will not "obey" mainstream thinking of what digital should or could do. Greetings
Lets assume your magical cable actually works and it solves SATA jitter, and lets assume that there is such a thing and it affects performance if you would play audio directly from the hard drive.
There is still the little detail that every decent audio player buffers the audio file before playback and plays it from the buffer rather than from the hard drive. Not only do the audio players buffer it all but also every decent audio interface does too. The audio clock, jitter and whatnot is not determined by hard drive latency unless your audio interface is truly awful.
A metafor for what you have done is to claim that if you travel to the CD store when you bought your CDs with a truck rather than using a bus or walking you would have improved sound quality.
But what about that magic, mysterious, unmentionable analog whatnot that "rides" with the bits?
=)
I'm not sure why I'm even trying to explain...
So kyrill, I have a test you can do.
Pick a number, lets say 4711 for simplicity.
Write it down on a paper.
Also write down the sum of the numbers on the side, 4+7+1+1 = 13.
Give the paper to a friend and ask him to read the number 4711 and use it, but make sure he first checks wherever the number is correct by checking that the sum of the numbers is indeed 13.
Congratulations, you have now in real life implemented what can be used as a digital interface, and as you can see there is no analogue whatnot magic. Either the receiver gets the correct information, or they don't.
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Engaging with this as a sensible claim is a bad idea, as it will vest it with a degree of credibility. This credibility will conceivably be enough for such beliefs to gain a foothold. For example, arguing with the assertion that blind testing is a myth implies that there is some conceivable merit to that viewpoint and that people who hold it should have their opinions reverently respected.
Likewise, if you argue about the sheer insanity of talking about jitter with a protocol that is not time-critical you imply that there is some form of technical argument being made by the believer that is sufficiently plausible to merit rebuttal.
On the other hand, simply laughing at the sheer unsubstantiated ludicrousness of the claim is both more fun and makes it clear that it is not worth the time of anyone with the slightest understanding of the issues involved.
I wish this had been applied when certain other audio-related ideas were becoming points of "debate"...
Likewise, if you argue about the sheer insanity of talking about jitter with a protocol that is not time-critical you imply that there is some form of technical argument being made by the believer that is sufficiently plausible to merit rebuttal.
On the other hand, simply laughing at the sheer unsubstantiated ludicrousness of the claim is both more fun and makes it clear that it is not worth the time of anyone with the slightest understanding of the issues involved.
I wish this had been applied when certain other audio-related ideas were becoming points of "debate"...
do not mix two posts as one
and do not take words out of contexts ( the blind test example for high end audio) and also you use yr thinking only to end up doing NOTHING to enrich yr experience. Thinking, explaining and so on without own experience ( in this sata example) is just adding to Bull *** as I explained earlier
and do not take words out of contexts ( the blind test example for high end audio) and also you use yr thinking only to end up doing NOTHING to enrich yr experience. Thinking, explaining and so on without own experience ( in this sata example) is just adding to Bull *** as I explained earlier
Here is an example. I could explain why gibbering about "experience" is fallacious bull****, but that would imply that the individual I am responding to has a point with some sort of redeeming feature, such as making sense.
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After the SATA bus there are about a billion tiny transistors in the SATA controller, CPU and RAM as well as non linear bus termination diodes, interference from several different frequency clocks and data, tiny noisy PCB traces, and all sorts of awful things. Then the data goes to a buffer in memory, where it is clocked out through the DAC. The SATA cable could have hundreds of errors per minute and have to re send the data, but as long as the buffer is kept full it will make zero difference.
You might as well say that music sounds better when you run a text editor.
You might as well say that music sounds better when you run a text editor.
Three serious questions (before the apathy sets in again).
1) If you actually used one of these silver SATA cables on a PC, which ran a DHCP server, to send a .WAV file to a client (via DHCP), across a network, which then played the file through a suitable DAC (perhaps via USB or maybe SPDIF, take your pick), would it make a difference to the sound?
2) Would this scenario be particularly different to the one assumed that is claimed to sound better with this silver SATA cable (I'm happy to accept claims with or without velvet)?
3) Finally, if you think the two are different (and so, my first suggestion is obviously silly), why?
1) If you actually used one of these silver SATA cables on a PC, which ran a DHCP server, to send a .WAV file to a client (via DHCP), across a network, which then played the file through a suitable DAC (perhaps via USB or maybe SPDIF, take your pick), would it make a difference to the sound?
2) Would this scenario be particularly different to the one assumed that is claimed to sound better with this silver SATA cable (I'm happy to accept claims with or without velvet)?
3) Finally, if you think the two are different (and so, my first suggestion is obviously silly), why?
Why try to explain ( in disbelief) before you listen for yourself?
This kind of "reasoning"i have heard years ago when crazy ppl made the statement that silver power cables sounded better. Disbelievers mentioned the miles of cables in the grnd before it reaches yr house, the silly copper cables in the wall and so on connected to this silver pwc cable. and not a silver within the amplifier no just the powerchord..
I donn't have a silver sata (yet) but have heard against better reasoning of so many others easily differences between USB cables and pws of hdd and ssd. Ah well
You cannot proof that analogue "ghosts" do not exist but you don't have to as they cannot exist, no? So you assume that all zero's and ones will sound alike as long it is "bit perfect" and as long as you assume it, you belief yourself to be so true, you do not need to try otherwise. So why listen? This is the opposite approach to good science. read Karl Popper. I will leave your fine world to you gentlemen. I rest my case
This kind of "reasoning"i have heard years ago when crazy ppl made the statement that silver power cables sounded better. Disbelievers mentioned the miles of cables in the grnd before it reaches yr house, the silly copper cables in the wall and so on connected to this silver pwc cable. and not a silver within the amplifier no just the powerchord..
I donn't have a silver sata (yet) but have heard against better reasoning of so many others easily differences between USB cables and pws of hdd and ssd. Ah well
You cannot proof that analogue "ghosts" do not exist but you don't have to as they cannot exist, no? So you assume that all zero's and ones will sound alike as long it is "bit perfect" and as long as you assume it, you belief yourself to be so true, you do not need to try otherwise. So why listen? This is the opposite approach to good science. read Karl Popper. I will leave your fine world to you gentlemen. I rest my case
The burden of evidence is on the guy peddling this nonsense. He's been very adamant that he's spent (fill in the blank) $$$ and (fill in the blank) years developing this miraculous silver-and-velvet-based technology, but says that he refuses to present any data. There's always someone gullible enough to fall for it- I'm surprised that any of them would be on this forum.
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