Let me put my considerable influence and expertise <cough> behind both proposals.
110% for an acoustics (room & related issues, such as transmission of sound through surfaces to equipment, etc...)
100% for a newbie area. I am sure that a fair number of experienced participants would come over look and try to help. I do that now when I see a post like that.
One possible solution to help the newbies discriminate the "wheat from the chaff" might be to add a tag to the left hand box that now contains the avatar and other information. Something to indicate that that person was experienced and recognized as being helpful. Yeah, it could add to some person's egos, but who cares? In effect a "mentor" standing. It could be an icon or a word or phrase like "mentor". Perhaps participants could be required to apply for status, or the status could be (and also as well) given by moderators when merited.
I think both ideas are worth adopting presently.
Hope my great influence and status will carry the day.
_-_-bear
110% for an acoustics (room & related issues, such as transmission of sound through surfaces to equipment, etc...)
100% for a newbie area. I am sure that a fair number of experienced participants would come over look and try to help. I do that now when I see a post like that.
One possible solution to help the newbies discriminate the "wheat from the chaff" might be to add a tag to the left hand box that now contains the avatar and other information. Something to indicate that that person was experienced and recognized as being helpful. Yeah, it could add to some person's egos, but who cares? In effect a "mentor" standing. It could be an icon or a word or phrase like "mentor". Perhaps participants could be required to apply for status, or the status could be (and also as well) given by moderators when merited.
I think both ideas are worth adopting presently.
Hope my great influence and status will carry the day.
_-_-bear
not sure I see where the grief would be.
the acoustics area is straightforward and a good idea.
the newbie thing can be a "beta" and let's see if it significantly adds to the load or not?
After all part of the idea of this site is to bring people to the hobby?
Adding a tag to the avatar area can't be very difficult - so that readers can ID posts that they perhaps should put more credence in. Mine, excepted, of course.
_-_-bear
the acoustics area is straightforward and a good idea.
the newbie thing can be a "beta" and let's see if it significantly adds to the load or not?
After all part of the idea of this site is to bring people to the hobby?
Adding a tag to the avatar area can't be very difficult - so that readers can ID posts that they perhaps should put more credence in. Mine, excepted, of course.
_-_-bear
Rather than a newbie section, how about a sticky thread with suggestions on how to use the site most effectively.
#1: Use google search:
Here's one question that comes up several times per week, it seems
port tune site:diyaudio.com - Google Search
dangus,
I do not know how old you are, but realize that generation of DIYers is changing. The new generation is coming and does not know what discrete element is. My generation listened to record players, tape decks, and CD players. Our question was always what to do to improve the sound of those devices. New generation listens to computers and MP3 players included phones. And, it may sound familiar...., they will ask question how to improve sound of their devices. I guess..... you have to live with it instead of complaining.
Now newbie reference...... very often search does not bring what you are looking for because that information is not here. Like I said before I look for schematics or information about suitable part replacements. From the asked question is very easy to figure out what the post is about. It would be very easy to cut the thread short by direct answering the question. Like my example above about Apex amp. People here used that chip before with great results. but, answer to my question is I do not know how to implement the chip. So, what do you think...would I ask the question if I knew how to implement the chip? Common guys, if you want to help answer in more logical way. I do not expect to elaborate virtues of that chip ( and I do not really care ). I just need schematic and my post would be very short. And others could use it too. Many newbies questions are like that: simple question with very complex answer which realy does not answer asked question. The other much more friendly forum was HeadWize. It is sad it does not exist anymore.
Ohhh well...it looks like the "newbie issue" will still exist. No one has good idea how to solve it
And remember one thing: There is no stupid questions Only stupid answers.
I do not know how old you are, but realize that generation of DIYers is changing. The new generation is coming and does not know what discrete element is. My generation listened to record players, tape decks, and CD players. Our question was always what to do to improve the sound of those devices. New generation listens to computers and MP3 players included phones. And, it may sound familiar...., they will ask question how to improve sound of their devices. I guess..... you have to live with it instead of complaining.
Now newbie reference...... very often search does not bring what you are looking for because that information is not here. Like I said before I look for schematics or information about suitable part replacements. From the asked question is very easy to figure out what the post is about. It would be very easy to cut the thread short by direct answering the question. Like my example above about Apex amp. People here used that chip before with great results. but, answer to my question is I do not know how to implement the chip. So, what do you think...would I ask the question if I knew how to implement the chip? Common guys, if you want to help answer in more logical way. I do not expect to elaborate virtues of that chip ( and I do not really care ). I just need schematic and my post would be very short. And others could use it too. Many newbies questions are like that: simple question with very complex answer which realy does not answer asked question. The other much more friendly forum was HeadWize. It is sad it does not exist anymore.
Ohhh well...it looks like the "newbie issue" will still exist. No one has good idea how to solve it
And remember one thing: There is no stupid questions Only stupid answers.
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newbie
Newbie forum bench mark - If you have examples of forums that do newbie well, post them and we can consider for bench marking.
Otherwise I say no for reasons already stated well by pinkmouse. This isn't a simple topic and is debated in the life cycle of most forums.
for example - I read the 2011 post TB linked, and re-read through it three times. A schematic was not explicitly asked for, regardless of reinterpretation and recent insistence it was a simple request for a schematic. Such is life on the interwebs. Translation and interpretation of written word is difficult. It gets worse when it is newb-on-newb.
I see an underutilized FAQ section on this site which is relative to all forms of newbie. Is the current usage a vbulletin limitation or self-imposed?
Newbie forum bench mark - If you have examples of forums that do newbie well, post them and we can consider for bench marking.
Otherwise I say no for reasons already stated well by pinkmouse. This isn't a simple topic and is debated in the life cycle of most forums.
for example - I read the 2011 post TB linked, and re-read through it three times. A schematic was not explicitly asked for, regardless of reinterpretation and recent insistence it was a simple request for a schematic. Such is life on the interwebs. Translation and interpretation of written word is difficult. It gets worse when it is newb-on-newb.
I see an underutilized FAQ section on this site which is relative to all forms of newbie. Is the current usage a vbulletin limitation or self-imposed?
I'm aware nobody asked me but...
A person could be so newb they don't know the right question to ask.
Not a simple topic, but I doubt it gets resolved via segregation or ranking.
Acoustics, on the other hand, probably deserves forum status rather than random threads under the hardware and everything else topics.
A person could be so newb they don't know the right question to ask.
Not a simple topic, but I doubt it gets resolved via segregation or ranking.
Acoustics, on the other hand, probably deserves forum status rather than random threads under the hardware and everything else topics.
Agreed 100% for all the reasons pinkmouse gave plus also that the truly clueless, who need the most help, would quite likely post their questions in the wrong forum anyway.
What I do think may be useful is a "Beginners guide" sticky or article. This should not contain any technical info, but merely be a guide on how to find information and how to get help.
A couple of examples:
A recent thread started with something like "I have a pair of Thugmaster 5000 subs, but I can't find the TS parameters or any other info about them.....". I Googled "Thugmaster 5000" (or whatever it was) and the very first result contained all the info the OP was looking for, including the TS parameters. How hard was that? When someone else posted the info, the OP responded along the lines of: "Wow! How did you find that?" Seriously. Apparently some people don't know how to use Google.
I replied to another recent question with a link to the Wikipedia article covering the subject at hand. The response was something like "Doh! I'm such an idiot, why didn't I think to look on Wikipedia?" Yes, quite.
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Another common problem with noob questions is that not enough information is given. For example, someone will ask for help because their amp is making a noise in one channel, and then we have to play 20 questions starting with "what kind of amp is it and what sort of noise is it making?"
When we try to help someone with a problem here on the forum, it's a bit like a doctor trying to diagnose an illness without seeing the patient. At the very least (s)he needs some info about the patient and the symptoms.
That said, I understand that beginners often don't know what info is relevant, so I have sympathy and do often try to help with that kind of question.
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What does really irritate me is when the person asking for help doesn't cooperate with the people trying to help. Two recent cases spring to mind:
In one, the OP was having trouble with a circuit he had built. When he was asked for a circuit diagram, he replied: "I don't think I need to show the schematic.....". In the other case, the OP was having trouble with a simulation. He also declined to post a schematic when asked.
Both threads then dragged on with the people trying to help having to make wild assumptions about what was going on, without having any useful info to go on.
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It also doesn't help when the person asking for help ignores all the advice and information given to them. I'm not suggesting people should believe everything they read or accept anything unquestioningly, but surely it's a good idea to at least consider the possibility that the info given is correct?
About a month ago, bcarso was trying to help a beginner with a simple amplifier circuit. Despite having a total fanboy moment when he realized that Brad is actually a professional audio designer, the OP then proceeded to ignore almost all of his advise.
I don't have the same professional status as Brad (and many others here), so I sometimes have to go the extra mile, backing up what I say with explanations or evidence, in the hope of being taken seriously. That doesn't always work.
When I suggested to the OP that his simulator was misleading him and that the voltage drop across an LED in his circuit would be about 1.75V, rather than the 1.47V predicted, he didn't believe me. Fair enough. So I posted extracts from the datasheet of the LED he was planning on using, highlighting the relevant information. I also suggested that if he didn't believe the datasheet, he could just do a simple measurement on one of his LEDs.
Several weeks later, after having been reminded a few more times, he was still working on the assumption that the voltage drop will be 1.47V, presumably "because the simulator said so."
Sometimes you just gotta give up. Maybe when he builds something and it burns, he'll start paying attention.[/rant]
When new members join, it may be a good idea to include links to the forum rules, a guide to etiquette, and a beginner's guide (as mentioned above) in the email sent to them. How many people will read them is another story, but at least they will have been given the info.
Cheers - Godfrey
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Noob section is still a good idea to try as a beta.
See how it functions or fails.
Nothing much to lose by trying it out.
There will always be people who can't, don't want to, and simply do not "get it" no matter how many times good information is given to them. THOSE PEOPLE are not a reason to not do something that would welcome and help all the others who could benefit.
Try it as a Beta/Test and mark the section as such. What's the big deal?
_-_-bear
PS. acoustics, definitely.
See how it functions or fails.
Nothing much to lose by trying it out.
There will always be people who can't, don't want to, and simply do not "get it" no matter how many times good information is given to them. THOSE PEOPLE are not a reason to not do something that would welcome and help all the others who could benefit.
Try it as a Beta/Test and mark the section as such. What's the big deal?
_-_-bear
PS. acoustics, definitely.
Here is a site that does it well
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/
Their general audio forum is their noob forum. They also have a how to section full of articles written by members.
The problem with this site is that it doesn't recognize the range of beginners that are interested in Audio. When I first came to this site, years ago, I had no audio or electrical background. Hell, I went to school for business. I had to teach myself everything by digging and digging for information. A lot of times I had questions, where what I was asking made logical sense to me, but it did not make sense if you understood electronics. I think a forum where you can ask anything and get a reasonable response would be a great addition to this site.
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/
Their general audio forum is their noob forum. They also have a how to section full of articles written by members.
The problem with this site is that it doesn't recognize the range of beginners that are interested in Audio. When I first came to this site, years ago, I had no audio or electrical background. Hell, I went to school for business. I had to teach myself everything by digging and digging for information. A lot of times I had questions, where what I was asking made logical sense to me, but it did not make sense if you understood electronics. I think a forum where you can ask anything and get a reasonable response would be a great addition to this site.
Member
Joined 2009
I think the model of the forum is fine, at least after you get used to it. There's literally troves of great information buried around here. What's difficult really is locating and referencing relevant information. This is where the experienced members of the forum help by guiding newbies in the right direction.
Ideally there will be a reference book that anyone can search and find an answer to their question. The forum would be just a place for discussions.
I don't buy the notion that newbies are 'lazy' and prefer to be told the answer that they can find on their own with some searching and reading. I think what's happening is that if you don't know something you don't know how to search for it. And who wants to read a thread with hundreds of pages on a single topic? Often when I ask a question somebody says "oh that was discussed in thread X already, search for the term Y". That works fine. You don't have to answer questions in detail if it's been done already.
I think what will be most helpful is a library of well written articles. Often I redirect newbies to ZaphAudio, Elliot Sound Products, Lenard Audio, Linkwitz, Red Spade Audio and many others. They do great job of explaining audio in simple and accessible form. But again the information is scattered on different places on the net. I would like to see a forum like DIYaudio publish an almanac of audio topics. We can have threads on each article where members can suggest how to improve the content. The article will be to teach people about the topic and the forum can be used to decide how to write the article. For example somebody looking for How to do a Crossover on a PC can read a 2page article that get updated occasionally and not a scary monster of hundreds of pages with mostly outdated and irrelevant info.
Ideally there will be a reference book that anyone can search and find an answer to their question. The forum would be just a place for discussions.
I don't buy the notion that newbies are 'lazy' and prefer to be told the answer that they can find on their own with some searching and reading. I think what's happening is that if you don't know something you don't know how to search for it. And who wants to read a thread with hundreds of pages on a single topic? Often when I ask a question somebody says "oh that was discussed in thread X already, search for the term Y". That works fine. You don't have to answer questions in detail if it's been done already.
I think what will be most helpful is a library of well written articles. Often I redirect newbies to ZaphAudio, Elliot Sound Products, Lenard Audio, Linkwitz, Red Spade Audio and many others. They do great job of explaining audio in simple and accessible form. But again the information is scattered on different places on the net. I would like to see a forum like DIYaudio publish an almanac of audio topics. We can have threads on each article where members can suggest how to improve the content. The article will be to teach people about the topic and the forum can be used to decide how to write the article. For example somebody looking for How to do a Crossover on a PC can read a 2page article that get updated occasionally and not a scary monster of hundreds of pages with mostly outdated and irrelevant info.
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That's why I suggested making better use of the Wiki. You can link to outside articles or sites of particular merit, particular posts or threads, have articles (well-written or not), cookbook projects, whatever.
Wikis aren't just for encyclopedias; try something like Wikipad and you'll find it's ideal for compiling all kinds of information, technical, personal, or work-related.
Wikis aren't just for encyclopedias; try something like Wikipad and you'll find it's ideal for compiling all kinds of information, technical, personal, or work-related.
I agree with godfrey (post 34).
A complication is that there are various types of newbie:
1. the beginner, keen to learn - may be confused by bad advice (from type 4 below)
2. the beginner, wants answers to specific points but can't be bothered to learn or even Google so is likely not to understand the anwers given
3. the beginner, cannot comprehend that it takes years of study and experimentation before you begin to understand electronics - wants to become an expert in three weeks
4. the experienced but ignorant - been building stuff for years but still hasn't got a clue how it works, and is quite unaware of the depth of their ignorance
5. the lazy student with a deadline approaching
One thing which would make a difference is if threads which are specifically aimed at newbies (such as the online tube learning one) were rigourously purged of any hijacks. That is not the thread to ask how to mend a specific fault in a Thugmaster 5000. I realise that this would create more work for the mods, but we could help by refusing to answer such misplaced questions and simply reporting the post as being inappropriate for that thread.
A complication is that there are various types of newbie:
1. the beginner, keen to learn - may be confused by bad advice (from type 4 below)
2. the beginner, wants answers to specific points but can't be bothered to learn or even Google so is likely not to understand the anwers given
3. the beginner, cannot comprehend that it takes years of study and experimentation before you begin to understand electronics - wants to become an expert in three weeks
4. the experienced but ignorant - been building stuff for years but still hasn't got a clue how it works, and is quite unaware of the depth of their ignorance
5. the lazy student with a deadline approaching
One thing which would make a difference is if threads which are specifically aimed at newbies (such as the online tube learning one) were rigourously purged of any hijacks. That is not the thread to ask how to mend a specific fault in a Thugmaster 5000. I realise that this would create more work for the mods, but we could help by refusing to answer such misplaced questions and simply reporting the post as being inappropriate for that thread.
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