"especially after Zipping,Unzipping,saving to a computer which could be a mediocre laptop or a high quality desktop, and degradation due to Servers and numerous transmission hops."
Eh?
You realise that data would be completely unaffected by such activities - or did your message change as it made it's way across the internet, and I've misunderstood you?
"especially after Zipping,Unzipping,saving to a computer which could be a mediocre laptop or a high quality desktop, and degradation due to Servers and numerous transmission hops."
You don't need to study files in a binary editor. fc (or diff on a proper OS) will check for you and state if they are identical.
Eh?
You realise that data would be completely unaffected by such activities - or did your message change as it made it's way across the internet, and I've misunderstood you?
"especially after Zipping,Unzipping,saving to a computer which could be a mediocre laptop or a high quality desktop, and degradation due to Servers and numerous transmission hops."
You don't need to study files in a binary editor. fc (or diff on a proper OS) will check for you and state if they are identical.
Well, the poster in reply 85 did , and reported hearing differences. He then made a wise decision to divorce himself from this thread to get away from such closed minded people who couldn't even be bothered trying what the OP suggested.I am now out of this thread too, and will await the verdict from the HFC report when published.Not that too many of you here will accept any of that either, as YOU will not have controlled the tests personally, so the results will be irrelevant to you.
Have a nice day.
SandyK
P.S.
I will still be contactable via PM for those of you who have a genuine interest in further investigating this issue.
Too bad that the "degradation due to Servers and numerous transmission hops" didn't occur on any of your previous messages. That would convice me.
Do we have to have threads like this?
Some things are unlikely, but others are plain impossible.
The claims made here are plainly impossible. There's no question of any tests, and nobody with a claim to a shred of rationality should be advocating testing.
You need to get down and dirty in this argument instead of washing your hands like some latter-day Pilate, or simply hold your tongue. You weren't so mealy-mouthed when it came to expressing an opinion about etching solutions. 'Darwin award' was what I heard. You're supposed to be a moderator here, to me that means you don't exercise a penchant for insincerity for your private entertainment even if you're not wearing your moderators hat.
@fran, erin, sandyK. You have to accept that some things require no proof. If I came on here and said 'I saw a fish give birth to a kitten' you would reject the claim out of hand.
I don't care what you think you saw or heard, bit-identical files can no more sound different than a fish can give birth to a kitten. There is no room for argument. Yes, you have ears like the rest of us, but no, you do not understand digital electronics. This means that your opinions are valueless. Worthless, and your continued insistence on pressing them on the rest of the community is a form of antisocial behaviour. Do you have no regard for the immature and impressionable who may come to believe that fish can give birth to kittens?
All this rubbish just makes me less and less inclined to visit here.
Some things are unlikely, but others are plain impossible.
The claims made here are plainly impossible. There's no question of any tests, and nobody with a claim to a shred of rationality should be advocating testing.
You need to get down and dirty in this argument instead of washing your hands like some latter-day Pilate, or simply hold your tongue. You weren't so mealy-mouthed when it came to expressing an opinion about etching solutions. 'Darwin award' was what I heard. You're supposed to be a moderator here, to me that means you don't exercise a penchant for insincerity for your private entertainment even if you're not wearing your moderators hat.
@fran, erin, sandyK. You have to accept that some things require no proof. If I came on here and said 'I saw a fish give birth to a kitten' you would reject the claim out of hand.
I don't care what you think you saw or heard, bit-identical files can no more sound different than a fish can give birth to a kitten. There is no room for argument. Yes, you have ears like the rest of us, but no, you do not understand digital electronics. This means that your opinions are valueless. Worthless, and your continued insistence on pressing them on the rest of the community is a form of antisocial behaviour. Do you have no regard for the immature and impressionable who may come to believe that fish can give birth to kittens?
All this rubbish just makes me less and less inclined to visit here.
That's because the CD player chips were designed to do that instead of just ejecting the disc on the first hard error it found.
CD-ROM is NOT error free, as I can demonstrate with a CD-ROM and a shotgun. Under normal operation, when a CD-ROM reads an error, it stops and says it can't read the disc. It could just as well copy the previous sector and give that to the computer as the next sector of the file as an audio CD player does, but that probably wouldn't be the data you want.
You can rest assured that for some people this will NEVER be settled. Or it may be "settled" but there will never be full agreement on which way it got settled.
So THIS is why some people eschew blind tests - the differences go away!I can put the same file on repeat and hear differences each time. Ditto a copy of the same track. Can I identify those in an A/B test? No. It's easy to hear differences were there are none. It's much harder to identify those differences in a blind test. Just FWIW
V unir ab vqrn jung lbh pbhyq or gnyxvat nobhg. V'ir arire frra n sbehz cbfg trg tneoyrq. Vg zhfg or fbzr pbafcvenpl bs gur Vagrearg gb fpenzoyr zhfvp qngn bayl. V jbaqre vs gur zhfvp qngn trgf fpenzoyrq jvgu EBG13.
It's only five pages for me, but I have the forum configured so it shows me 50 posts at a time. It's in the User CP somewhere. It makes it easier to read a high-volume cantankerous thread like this one.
All it demonstrates is that we, er, I mean THOSE people who hear no difference have tin ears!
Issues of safety are a different matter, especially when they fall within my professional specialties. I think I was pretty clear about my skepticism, but if someone is willing to put their beliefs to the test, I'm willing to put in some effort. You may not be, and that's certainly your privilege.
All 3 files completely null to each other, a to b, a to c and b to c and that makes them identical to each other or one in the same. Therefore it is impossible to accurately complete the survey because it would only be a guess. If these three files were ripped in the same manner as the OP has outlined in the first post of this thread then he is wrong in saying that the safe mode sounds better. As far as that goes why does it always sound better instead of worse?
Counter-culture - that's a good post - full of sanity articulately expressed!!
For the record I haven't even got to do the test myself yet. But I get really pi$$ed off when I see a certain crew of objectivists circling like sharks around a genuine (if incorrect/misguided/crazy) suggestion. It then very quickly descends into sneering and snide comments.
So why do I give this kind of thread the time of day? Well, I have heard some things recently, confirmed by my own amateurish blind test using family members as subjects, that I didn't consider possible. I suppose I also have a bit of a kindly feeling towards those who say "I think I hear a difference, I wonder what caused that?" compared to those who say "I measure it the same therefore I do not hear a difference".
Open vs Closed.
Oh, and if you could bring me proof of the fish and kitten bit, or better still allow me to see it with my own eyes, then I might not dismiss it out of hand.
Fran
Attached are the SHA256 Checksum results of two files previously mentioned.
Amy Winehouse (fedelizer rip) and Frente (safemode rip)
Both checksum numbers are the same. The files sound different.
More data / proof to come soon.
All of this takes time to organize and I wasn't expecting to have to do all this.
Amy Winehouse (fedelizer rip) and Frente (safemode rip)
Both checksum numbers are the same. The files sound different.
More data / proof to come soon.
All of this takes time to organize and I wasn't expecting to have to do all this.
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