I think that there is a bit of "crossover" (sorry for the pun) that is not being addressed...
IMHO much of the older legacy home Hi-Fi gear by the likes of Altec Lansing, JBL, etc had their roots in commercial design -- as an example the large 4" diameter diaphragmed 2" exit compression drivers from JBL actually have "pro" and "consumer" model identification numbers: 2440/375, JBL 2441/376
the physics behind sound reproduction have not changed over time,
although our ability to manufacture very close tolerence parts with high levels of uniformity have certainly come along way since Fletcher et al were at it...
PS. I am using old JBL compression drivers and ring radiators -- as well as woofers and subs that are often used in PA applications, not to mention the old crown and CM Labs amplifiers...
this stuff can sound very good in a domestic environment...
on the imaging front, correct me if i'm wrong -- but sometimes isn't this also related to the 'stereo effect' created during recording/mixdown? what I am saying is that not all tracks will have that holographic image available, regardless of the system you are using...
another important facet of this imaging 'trick' is the horn being utilized in the system -- for example Edgar Tractrix horns are notorious for creating that holographic image, vintage Smith horns will not do this effect nearly as well, as they were to designed to do so -- they were designed in the earlier days of audio when mono was much more common in people's living rooms....
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I've had excellent results using professional drivers. Yes, my stereo images very well thank you very much.
If you mean taking a PA system from a road show and putting that in your living room, well good luck. That's not what we mean by using PA gear, at least I don't. I mean using pro drivers in a well designed cabinet. The results are outstanding in my opinion.
If you mean taking a PA system from a road show and putting that in your living room, well good luck. That's not what we mean by using PA gear, at least I don't. I mean using pro drivers in a well designed cabinet. The results are outstanding in my opinion.
I have a pair of Peavy DTH 215 subs with organ drivers and let me tell you, THEY SOUND AWESOME!!!! Lots of excursion and lots of air movement. the cabs are made of baltic birch and the original black widow drivers were stiff and went down to maybe 60 hertz. I changed them out with organ drivers, and the bass goes way down. Driver change helps a lot. I have a Crest FA 1201 power amp and a class H QSC power amp, the sound is awesome. I like classical organ, theatre organ, Sinatra,Mathis, and the like. My experience. No a Black widow driver or the like are terrible for home audio. My Altec Lansings A7s sound awesome too but only when I put heavy drapes in front of them.
A7s were packaged as domestic speakers back in the day...
they still hold their value today...
they had beautiful fret work and veneer... were called A7-500W "Magnificent"
Is this an Altec Magnificent?
they still hold their value today...
they had beautiful fret work and veneer... were called A7-500W "Magnificent"
Is this an Altec Magnificent?
Those were designed to have a movie screen in front of them, so yeah, I can see this.
Much has been written about the efficiency characteristic of loud speakers. Higher efficiency speakers have better transient response due to less mechanical losses but at the loss of linearity. If you don't push these woofers to hard as to push the voice coil out of the gap this is less an issue. The other trade off is a higher resonant frequency which may make them sound thiner less bottom end.
Hi Rob,
First I agree with most of the posts.
That said after seeing your speaker I think there may be a problem.
What is the lower limit for your Planar drivers?
At what frequency does the manufacturer suggest you set your Hi-Pass?
Also did they give you any kind of polar plot. What is the dispersion at various frequencies, especially the xover point for the planar drivers?
If it is above 1.5kHz then above that frequency your 15” is beaming like a laser. If you do not point these speakers right at your head you WILL have a big hole in the mids.
For DIY home audio you don’t need a lot more then 100dB.
For a PA driver you get around 95dB FOR 1WATT!
If I compare the best 12” Pro woofer I have ever heard with a ScanSpeak 6.5” and your Planar drivers the sound quality improvement will be huge. But only for home use. That great sounding Scanspeak won’t go much past 125watts while the Dayton woofer might do 500 watts.
I disagree. When comparing PA drivers with Home audio drivers you can make the claim that pro drivers sacrifice some sound quality to get the SPL that is needed.
And since a Home audio driver does not need to produce one tenth of the SPL needed for Pro use the manufacturer can make some tradeoffs and deliver a clearer and sweeter sound.
One other claim I will make is this is a one-way street.
You can use pro audio drivers in a home audio system.
On the other hand if you try to use home audio type drivers to mix a bar band you will not even hear them blow up over the stage volume. LOL
I tried this once with a pair of Speaker Lab 7s
They had a Horn loaded T-350 tweeter
A HD8 horn with a 1" compression driver (EV )
two woofers, One 10" and one 12". Both made for a sealed box.
I used a Carver 400watt "cube" for power
I tried to use them as stage monitors. I thought I might get away with it because of the mid and tweet horns, but the Carver over heated before we could get the box to the level we needed.
I agree with a "Blanket" statement you made that "a good PA driver can work effectively in a home system.".
I totally agree. I have had to listen to my PA at home for many years because The PA took all of my money. I am sure you can relate.
But I stick to my guns.
Build your home system with pro drivers of any make or model and as long as I do not need to match SPL I will build a better sounding system with less money using home audio drivers.
BTW, here is a tip on pro drivers that sound excellent .
Check out BMS (Office in Germany).
The USA dist is Assistance Audio in Utah.
The woofers are very good, but the compression drivers are spectacular!
Welcome to Assitance Audio
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Too Tall,
Your whole post sounds just like something some of those guys on the old "Bass List" would do.
"List"..................Hmmmmmmmm?
Best Regards,
TerryO
Too Tall,
Your whole post sounds just like something some of those guys on the old "Bass List" would do.
"List"..................Hmmmmmmmm?
Best Regards,
TerryO
That is only fare since I have been a member of the Bass List since the early 90s. Back when it was a "Listserv" run out of U of Texas. (I hope I have the school correct)
Curtis,
I thought it was you, but I wasn't quite sure.
I suppose you've you already heard that Bob Stout died in February? Unlike the fake announcement four years ago by "brianon", I'm afraid this is genuine.
Great Guy and a real loss to those that knew him from the old "Bass List" days.
Best Regards,
Terry Olson
I agree that the PA drivers won't sound nearly as good as home audio. but the cabinets would be great if you change the drivers. I have a pair of Peavy DTH 215 subs, I took those ridgid Black Widows and replaced them with Allen organ pedal woofers and let me say the sound was 100 times better than when it had the black widows. The bass went way lower and the sound was much sweeter and pure. That is my opinion and experience. Now if I was trying to amplify a 4 string electric bass and have it heard over a screaming bar crowd they wouldn't hear the quality anyway.
Playing devil's advocate for a moment...
"sound better" is so vague that we shouldn't even go there.
I happen to think that Pro drivers offer sheer scale and dynamics that smaller home-hifi speakers can't match: pro drivers are, after all, designed to go loud, clean.
For me, this is a positive aspect of the sound, and home-hifi speakers will struggle to match.
For more small-scale, intimate pieces of music, then yes, the home-hifi speakers may well sound better.
Is that last bit in detail worth the sacrifice in dynamics?
IMHO, no, it isn't.
Chris
"sound better" is so vague that we shouldn't even go there.
I happen to think that Pro drivers offer sheer scale and dynamics that smaller home-hifi speakers can't match: pro drivers are, after all, designed to go loud, clean.
For me, this is a positive aspect of the sound, and home-hifi speakers will struggle to match.
For more small-scale, intimate pieces of music, then yes, the home-hifi speakers may well sound better.
Is that last bit in detail worth the sacrifice in dynamics?
IMHO, no, it isn't.
Chris
My experience with these Peavy DTH subs was that when I played organ music through them I was expecting real low bottom end that I could feel. All i got from those subwoofers was upper mid bass. I realized how stiff the cones were. I changed out the black widows with organ speakers from an old pedal cabinet. The difference was amazing, I had bottom end that would make things in my house rattle in the bedrooms and could feel it. My point is that whether the driver is pro or home,, cone stiffness and excursion is what counts. I have altec A7s and they are pro cabinets to provide sound in a movie theatre. and they will shake. those huge horns honk. It all depends on the driver. Allen uses many drivers in the pedal devision because they know that only one woofer to fill a whole church would not be sufficient for the low bottom end. What they do is load a huge cabinet with many woofers or cluster many woofers to handle all the low end an organ needs. Allen will use 5 or more subs and many 3 way speakers for the manuals. Some organ installs will have 20 30 or more speakers and that is 20 30 woofers. I remember riding a Lippizzan in this huge arena as a guest rider and the bass when the music was played was so power you could feel it in your chest.. Many many subwoofers 100 watts each were used and I think a total of 2000 watts were used. the sound engineer told me that the system had like 15 subwoofer cabinets eminence made them I can't remember. The whole point is that some bands want one speaker with high power input to do all the bass,, but in return the speaker will need to be stiff and chunky and the result is loud upper bass maybe down to 60 hertz which is about 8' pedal pitch. I want 32' pitch so I go with high end drivers like Altec or the like and stay clear form the ridgid black widow type of driver. I want 16 htz bass. Also I have had great experience from sealed enclosures that are huge. I love that sound.
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