4 years ago I paid $2,700 for a Kenwood refrigerator made by GE. Recently I got a paper in mail about lawsuit against them: people complain that lights inside do not go off.
I opened my fridge and found that indeed the plastic cover of lamps on top of it is hot! Pushing switches stopped beeping, but did not switch off lights!
I went online and found a Sears forum where they discussed the issue.
I dropped the message and next day got a call. Of course, when the technician arrived my bubs were unscrewed. He screwed them back, and it started working. The guy said it is ok, since relay is unreliable, and if it started working it means nothing. He has to order a replacement PCB for about $2, while his work is about $200 for GE.
After he left I installed there couple of 4W LED bulbs instead of couple of 120W bulbs: even if that relay sticks again, I don't loose 120 WH of an energy, plus what the pump needs to compensate heating.
Also, I ordered some interior LED lamps for my car, because once on campground daughter did not switch off lights inside and I had troubles kickstating the engine the next day.
I recall hearing about LEDs, that their light output drops significantly over their first six months of use. There was supposedly a paper in the 1970's from HP about it. Could that be it? It might be interesting to buy two of those things, check them for equal brightness, run one continuously for six months then check again.
I can hear it now, "that's what the Internet is for!" Really, more people order these things online, so the big box stores sell fewer and fewer of them. Amazon probably has 'em, it's got just about everything else. I've bought a phono cartridge from Amazon. It's not just for books anymore...
Bravo and very glad to hear you say that! That is what one might think. But in fact I bought the first batch one year ago and did not even remove them from their static proof sealed bag. So they had not run but a day or two when I added them new batch.
If I had run the original batch for a year, then I would have put down the difference to age, for sure. No one else here at home has commented on the difference, so I just stay mum.
I buy bulbs online. 1000 Bulbs is a source I can recommend. Lots of hard to find stuff as well as the regular lines at good prices.
When we built our 'Addition' to our residence, I placed myself in charge of wiring for lighting.....The wiring down here is way haphazard. No grounds, polarity mixed up. When "they" build a house (Masonry only) here, the foundations and walls are cut up to apply electrical service, if they don't lay wires directly into the masonry they use metal piping to run the wires......stupid idea, because they use sea-sand to mix-up the cement(concrete). So along with the sand there is salt and various sea-shells amongst other "things". Once they have cut-up everything & patched over it, along comes the plumbers...& cut-up more to run piping.
When I did our extra room I used 1" plastic piping AS the walls were being built up. Here, there is a fairly new law banning incandescents, replaced by the Halogen types. At three times the price..........add onto that the POOR fabrication of fixtures, 1/2 the time the sockets are cut poorly & the bulbs will flicker. Reworking fixtures is a given, even when new & expensive.
______________________________________________________Rick.......
When I did our extra room I used 1" plastic piping AS the walls were being built up. Here, there is a fairly new law banning incandescents, replaced by the Halogen types. At three times the price..........add onto that the POOR fabrication of fixtures, 1/2 the time the sockets are cut poorly & the bulbs will flicker. Reworking fixtures is a given, even when new & expensive.
______________________________________________________Rick.......
Just recently I got a simple vintage "SEA-20" EQ that had a burned out incandescent power indicator bulb. It was like a "grain o' wheat" bulb with wire leads in a special mount.
I deterimed that it was fed about 10v dc. So, I got a small, round LED with wire leads ment for an automotive indicator light (12v) that I made to fit into the bulb mount hole and it now has a light.
I deterimed that it was fed about 10v dc. So, I got a small, round LED with wire leads ment for an automotive indicator light (12v) that I made to fit into the bulb mount hole and it now has a light.
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Diodes are degrading rapidly if constantly in use LED can lost 50% of it's original efficiency within a year.
CRI of a luminophore is another issue. AFAIK it is impossible achieve natural color rendition by "cold light" that is simply prohibited by the Law of Physics.
Only substance that is hot as the Sun surface delivers real light however technically it is impossible to maintain such hot and therefore high pressure substance within bounders of some restricted volume as a light bulb for long period of time (seconds, minutes, hours). Halogen's bulbs most close to the Sun light except color temperature but human can handle color temperature easily.
All luminescent light sources have awkward gradual spectrum actually.
that's ~8,766 hrs of use.
Most Incandescents fail (zero light output) within 2,000hrs.
Many Compact Fluorescents are guaranteed for <=10,000hrs.
Most LEDs are guaranteed for >=20,000hrs.
Hi,
The Emphasis is CAN.
If the LED's are operated at lower than full rated power the lifespan goes up.
Incidentally, modern LED's are getting annoyingly bright, causing problems with excessive brightness and light leakage when used as indicator for HiFi Gear.
Can someone please bring the old dim LED's back?
If I dial the current low enough for the LED's not to be retina searing bright there is too much variation between different LED's (even same batch) and I really do not want to go the route of using PWM to dial brightness down (for obvious reasons)...
Ciao T
The Emphasis is CAN.
If the LED's are operated at lower than full rated power the lifespan goes up.
Incidentally, modern LED's are getting annoyingly bright, causing problems with excessive brightness and light leakage when used as indicator for HiFi Gear.
Can someone please bring the old dim LED's back?
If I dial the current low enough for the LED's not to be retina searing bright there is too much variation between different LED's (even same batch) and I really do not want to go the route of using PWM to dial brightness down (for obvious reasons)...
Ciao T
Don't forget that white LED is basically a CFL bulb with solid-state source of UV.
Despite diode performance degradation by itself luminophore that's emit white light from a LED actually gets less efficient either.
From the Wiki:
"The phosphor drops off in efficiency during use. By around 25,000 operating hours, it will typically be half the brightness of a new lamp"
Reading through OSRAM articles I got a feeling that OLED might be more promising technology than LED.
Currently LEDs are good for gardening applications where due to special absorption spectrum required by plants efficient photosynthesis special combination of reg, green & blue LEDs could be used directly without any losses for reemission via limunophore. In that area LEDs could outperform HIDs.
As of now for home lighting low voltage (long life / higher temperature) halogen bulbs via modern halogen electronic transformers are the best way to go IMHO.
CFL CRI 80% or better CRI 90% via dedicated electronic ballast like OSRAM socket 2G11 would be my second choice.
Yet LEDs for home appliances seems to be just fancy.
I tend to use more artificial lighting during the winter.
That extra heat load helps with boosting room temperature.
Did our Governments take any of our needs into account? Or did they just listen to the biased arguments of the environmentalists.
I refuse to pay a premium for some contrived technology when there is little to support it's existence.
If LED lamps were better than incandescents, in all circumstances, then I could/would support the new technology.
If the HID headlamps were better than their predecessors, then again, I would support them. Have you ever seen a main beam with an HID? Do you know why they are only used as main beam on "off road" competition vehicles?
Do you know why the HID dipped beam does not turn off?
That extra heat load helps with boosting room temperature.
Did our Governments take any of our needs into account? Or did they just listen to the biased arguments of the environmentalists.
I refuse to pay a premium for some contrived technology when there is little to support it's existence.
If LED lamps were better than incandescents, in all circumstances, then I could/would support the new technology.
If the HID headlamps were better than their predecessors, then again, I would support them. Have you ever seen a main beam with an HID? Do you know why they are only used as main beam on "off road" competition vehicles?
Do you know why the HID dipped beam does not turn off?
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If you've looked at OSRAMs data on their LEDs with regards to lighting then you should have also seen the projected lifetime predictions for their LED series. The Golden Dragon Plus series when driven at their 1 amp maximum will still be giving 70% of their initial light output well beyond 75,000 hours. Some of their ranges do better then this, some do worse.
75k hours is more then 8 years of continual operation.
Here is CREEs actual test data for most of their Xlamp LEDs @ 6000 hours.
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/LM-80_Results.pdf
Quite obviously under the right operating conditions (and using the correct LED for the right job) the drop off in light output isn't going to be a huge issue.
If you abuse LEDs then sure the lifetime significantly gets degraded, but then you could say they same for a standard filament bulb.
75k hours is more then 8 years of continual operation.
Here is CREEs actual test data for most of their Xlamp LEDs @ 6000 hours.
http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/LM-80_Results.pdf
Quite obviously under the right operating conditions (and using the correct LED for the right job) the drop off in light output isn't going to be a huge issue.
If you abuse LEDs then sure the lifetime significantly gets degraded, but then you could say they same for a standard filament bulb.
Same issue here. Northern winter daytime is very short and locally we have heavily overcasting sky most of the time. So a lot of good artificial lighting means healthy mood verbatim.
Regarding Governments I would stay away from the subject since politics is not favorable on the forum.
I saw OSRAM E27 LEDs bulbs in supermarket but price tags are terrific if not say terrifying
And once studied the subject I discover LEDs have no major benefits over CFL from light emission perspective. Moreover finding good professional LEDs like OSRAM in a shop is a tricky thing. However I am using Fenix tactical torchlight with Cree LED within several years and like LED for that purpose a lot (LED CRI looks to me no good however).HIDs are impressive but most of them are too powerful for indoor applications and need electronic ballast as well. However I heard good words about Phillips Ceramic ones from guys who performed professional instillations for commercial consumers. You may check regarding HIDs on Philip's WEB
MASTERColour CDM Elite - Philips
Anyway I am not ready for HIDs in living spaces. IMHO CFL suits such applications better. The only but serious drawback is mercury waste. So I am leaning towards halogen.
For house plants I am currently using E27 OSRAM CFL but thinking about FLUORA installation. Actually I can see FLUORA used in some windows evening time around it's getting pretty popular recently (violets & streptocarpuses are pretty favorable plants that can give blossom winter time if being lit properly).
Hi,
I guess so, I may need a more reliable solution for medium and high volume production...
Ciao T
I guess so, I may need a more reliable solution for medium and high volume production...
Ciao T
Well you absolutely have to buy 'warm' white LEDs and the lower the CCT the better. Typically you're going to need at least the 3k stuff to be remotely happy in a home environment. Sometimes a nice cool LED in a directional halogen fixing can be nice though, but that's in combination with main room lighting at 3k. I'd have thought the torch was cool white as they give the most light output.
Replacement bulbs are expensive and it is a problem, and yes CRIs of 80 are normal for warm white LEDs, this is on a par with CFLs, but then I've never had an issue with the colour rendering of CFLs, maybe because I am colour blind and the lack of some reds doesn't bother me as much - I know I have several gaps in the colour spectrum that I simply cannot see.
Not to worry, it's the early adopters who will pay the premium. And for good or bad, LEDs will never have anywhere near the high heat output that incandescents traditionally have had. And as far as the "extra heat load" this is a Good Thing, as heat from electricity is much more expensive than from any other common heating source.
A thermostat will maintain the same temperature, making up for lost heat from light bulbs, though the heat may be differently distributed without incandescent lights. That's a different problem, and my guess is it's the distribution (and perhaps the lack of a direct radiative heat source) that you're objecting to.
I heard something on the news about 12 years ago (in Georgia, US) that HID headlights might be outlawed due to the blue color messing up night vision for other drivers. I see few of them on the road (perhaps 1 out of 20 cars), and I do find the light from them annoying. Not sure if any laws were passed, but perhaps manufactures of cars sold in the USA were discouraged from having these as standard equipment.
As for your last questions (and I presume the terms "main beam" and "dipped beam" are what are usually called "high beam" and "low beam," respectively, in the USA) I was just reading Wikipedia on HID headlights, and it appears to take a little time for such lights to "warm up" so they wouldn't be appropriate for instantly-switched light sources such as high-beams (or "main beams").
Perhaps it's just where I live but HID headlamps are rather common in this neck of the woods, and are standard equipment on most new higher end vehicles - I'd estimate something on the order of 20% of the vehicles I encounter in my evening commute are equipped with these lamps. Obviously this says something about the % of newer vehicles in this area. They are substantially brighter than halogens and I find them particularly annoying in SUVs when they come up behind me. My car does not have them, if they had been an option I would have definitely purchased them - driving other similar vehicles so equipped I notice that wet road night visibility is much better than with my relatively bright halogens (lens projector type) and fog lamps.
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