Sheldon, it's a nearfield taken in line with the front of the mouth. I took a few at different positions to see the variation. I'm setting up a rig to measure polar response outdoors, so more measurements will follow.
You guys are lucky in the states with buying audio stuff. The mids cost $200 and for us here that is really cheap. I was quoted $95 each for the Misco drivers earlier. Outch!
You guys are lucky in the states with buying audio stuff. The mids cost $200 and for us here that is really cheap. I was quoted $95 each for the Misco drivers earlier. Outch!
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Not so sure about that. If China would make a concerted effort to raise the cost of doing business, we wouldn't be able to buy these drivers for ten bucks. But we'd also see a resurgence in American manufacturing. Alas, that's the Wal Martization of America for you.
"73 percent of the jobs created since the supposed economic recovery began have been in low-wage fields, where workers make between $7.51 (the national minimum wage) and $13.52 an hour ($15,621 to $28,122 a year for full-time).
In contrast, 60 percent of the layoffs from the Great Recession were in what the report calls midwage occupations, those that make between $28,142 and $42,973 per year."
http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Final occupations report 7-25-11.pdf?nocdn=1
"73 percent of the jobs created since the supposed economic recovery began have been in low-wage fields, where workers make between $7.51 (the national minimum wage) and $13.52 an hour ($15,621 to $28,122 a year for full-time).
In contrast, 60 percent of the layoffs from the Great Recession were in what the report calls midwage occupations, those that make between $28,142 and $42,973 per year."
http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Final occupations report 7-25-11.pdf?nocdn=1
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Well atleast you have a strong manufacturing background and investment in technology. Down here we just ship LOTS of dirt to china, raising our dollar to astronomical levels and killing off our manufacturing and export industries. On the flip side, the strong dollar means we can get stuff cheaper than ever from Europe and the US . And so it goes...
I'm enjoying this thread and looking forward to seeing your next installment Paul.
The midranges have arrived, and I just placed an order for the woofers. I've also scaled down the foot print. My design will be a lot closer to the original Unity horn, instead of the synergy horn. This is simply due to aesthetics - my Summas are already too damn big. I don't need a speaker that's any larger than they are.
My Unity horn will look a lot like the Jadis Eurythmie:
Follow my progress here:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - an iPod Dock for the Psychotic
My Unity horn will look a lot like the Jadis Eurythmie:
Follow my progress here:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - an iPod Dock for the Psychotic
WOW that took alot to get through. I am happy someone used many different ways to explain everything. I have learned a lot from this thread.
Nice to see people using some cheap drivers because shipping IS killer here in OZ. I have had to learn to do everything DIY since moving here.
I have a bunch more questions on the drivers selected or used but will wait to read alittle more from others using the drivers I have questions on.
Nice to see people using some cheap drivers because shipping IS killer here in OZ. I have had to learn to do everything DIY since moving here.
I have a bunch more questions on the drivers selected or used but will wait to read alittle more from others using the drivers I have questions on.
What size drivers would be needed to get the cutoff at around 80-120hz?
I think I would like to try and get a cutoff around 80 but wouldn't mind some where a little higher if need be. SH95 is what I was thinking spec wise.
PLUS I would only be able to buy once. Cant try alot of different drivers and find out I need bigger or more expensive drivers. I think I will mess up plenty with the build of the horn and just hope to use the same drivers is all.
I think I would like to try and get a cutoff around 80 but wouldn't mind some where a little higher if need be. SH95 is what I was thinking spec wise.
PLUS I would only be able to buy once. Cant try alot of different drivers and find out I need bigger or more expensive drivers. I think I will mess up plenty with the build of the horn and just hope to use the same drivers is all.
I assume you are planning a 3 way and talking about the woofers. The woofers seem to work as a bandpass but unlike the mids they don't seem to get much gain from the horn mouth. The advantage in putting them in the horn is close coupling of outputs. By 80 Hz you have to treat them as having no gain from the horn, so at a minimum you are looking at drivers with an fs around 80 Hz. Recently I picked up some B&C 8PS21 8" woofers for surround speakers, they could be just the thing assuming you do a 6th order bandpass. Otherwise if doing a 4th order bandpass you need drivers with an fs an octave lower than your intended LF limit. In that case you might look at a 10" or 12" woofer with an fs around 40 - 60 Hz.
The SH95 is only 94 db 1w1m and uses two 8" midwoofers. The response plot shows roll off below 300 Hz, not sure what is going on there.
If you want to do this on a budget without lots of trial and error, here's one suggestion. Make it a bit bigger than usual so the mids will get down lower, make it 2 way sitting on top of active monopoles with some good woofers 12 - 18". If you make it 3 way with woofers in the horn, the cost goes up quick.
Looks like I will have to stick with a larger horn and 5-6" drivers. I just want to have very tactful bass in the 120-300 area. Such as on Telarc Kunzel Tchaikovsky 1812 recording. When canons go off and guns blazing I had a big hole in freq resp. on my current system. The guns were not tactful and not very.....war like.
Just like when listening to a live drummer when he hits the snare thats what I am after. My subs will be designed for 3-120hz. I thought it would have been best to have anything you can locate(80hz) to be in the horn. BUT that sounds expensive.
I could always run my subs higher but my old subs didn't sound as good running higher as a one way that handled 60hz and above like a 12-15". SO I am just trying to figure the easiest approach instead of having so many boxes and some how stay near a budget. LOL
Just like when listening to a live drummer when he hits the snare thats what I am after. My subs will be designed for 3-120hz. I thought it would have been best to have anything you can locate(80hz) to be in the horn. BUT that sounds expensive.
I could always run my subs higher but my old subs didn't sound as good running higher as a one way that handled 60hz and above like a 12-15". SO I am just trying to figure the easiest approach instead of having so many boxes and some how stay near a budget. LOL
From say 80 - 200 Hz you often see boundary effects which can be a pest - look up SBIR if not familiar. I think you will find something like what I'm doing to be the cost effective way to do it. Also, if you can get your woofers to run down to about 40 Hz then you've covered most of the range for music with high efficiency. I've found limiting my subs to below 40 Hz gives them a much easier job - they just add a bit of extension and can focus more on HT. Depends on what your subs are of course.
I have a pair of 21" subs coming. I mainly want to use these for HT. Hence the 3-120hz.
Now I had been looking at a Beta 12LTA for the "impact," frequencies but we are starting to add alot of boxes. Although the Beta would be small.
I will have to check out the shipping again on your drivers and see where I am at. I just thought the idea of a SH sitting on top of my sub would be nice. SO many designs and just cant hear them most of them before building.
Now I had been looking at a Beta 12LTA for the "impact," frequencies but we are starting to add alot of boxes. Although the Beta would be small.
I will have to check out the shipping again on your drivers and see where I am at. I just thought the idea of a SH sitting on top of my sub would be nice. SO many designs and just cant hear them most of them before building.
Moving the 'ribbon tweeter in a Unity' thoughts over from jmorkins thread since it seems to make more sense in the more general discussion.
Interesting new direction. The Fountek you're using has fairly narrow vertical dispersion, but I suppose that may work OK in some environments. I'm definitely curious as to how it performs in the presence of the LF loading. I've gotten to the point where I can argue either side of the question, which basically means I have no idea.
I've always liked that Jadis design, although the mid horn is rather more symmetric than you are likely to be able to get out of the ribbon.
It is the trade off made for the very small horn size, and low corner frequency.
My friend with the Lambda unity horns used some drum tracks to demo them. They can definitely do drums very well!
My Summas don't go as low in the bass, by design. (Though the Lambda Unity and the Summa both have 15" woofers, the Summa has a higher F3 and a sealed alignment, intended to be used with an array of subwoofers.)
Excellent information, very good thread, thanks,
As a midrange in my tri-amping system with single ended amps, I use a clone of Bruce
Edgar 250Hz with JBL LE5-2, someone has tried the Pyle PDMR9?
PDMR9 - 5'' Dome Type Midrange Speaker Pyleaudio.com ::: Your source for Car Audio, Mobile Video, Neon Lighting
As a midrange in my tri-amping system with single ended amps, I use a clone of Bruce
Edgar 250Hz with JBL LE5-2, someone has tried the Pyle PDMR9?
PDMR9 - 5'' Dome Type Midrange Speaker Pyleaudio.com ::: Your source for Car Audio, Mobile Video, Neon Lighting
Parts Express is stocking the Celestion sealed-back 6" woofer:
Celestion TF0615MR 6" Professional Midrange Speaker 50W 294-2054
With a voice coil that has double the surface area of the Pyle and the Misco, it's no wonder that Tom Danley opted to use this for the Synergy.
Total overkill for the home, but an interesting option nonetheless. And fairly affordable too.
I like the pleated surround for the same reasons that John prefers it too.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Celestion TF0615MR 6" Professional Midrange Speaker 50W 294-2054
With a voice coil that has double the surface area of the Pyle and the Misco, it's no wonder that Tom Danley opted to use this for the Synergy.
Total overkill for the home, but an interesting option nonetheless. And fairly affordable too.
I like the pleated surround for the same reasons that John prefers it too.
With the 6 you could probably use just two of them in many designs
Celestion 4"
On my blog:
Red Spade Audio: Celestion 4" closed back midrange TF0410MR
With these sealed back mids, mms and VAS seem to be the hard to get parameters. I have not been able to measure VAS with woofer tester.
Celestion 4"
On my blog:
Red Spade Audio: Celestion 4" closed back midrange TF0410MR
With these sealed back mids, mms and VAS seem to be the hard to get parameters. I have not been able to measure VAS with woofer tester.