I have built Aleph 3, 30 and a pair of 2's, so many other amps I could fill a book. My KSA 50 klone trounces them all and many of you might recall the shootouts we did at my house and posted the results here. The Alephs are very respectable amps however N.P. has done much better work since those days. The Krell Klone when biased properly holds it's own very well even against new designs. I never took the KSA100 past the prototype stage but it certainly trounced the KSA 50! Had the KSA 50 been such a mediocre amp I wouldn't have spent all the time and energy I did early on in this thread. The KSA50 was also listed as one of the 10 best amps ever designed by Stereophile magazine and my klone has given thousands of enjoyable musical hours.
Katiesnddad need to look back again. They posted that Aleph 2 is only 20 watts... WRONG! It is a monoblock version of the Aleph 4 and does a little over 100 watts into 8 ohms.
Mark
Katiesnddad need to look back again. They posted that Aleph 2 is only 20 watts... WRONG! It is a monoblock version of the Aleph 4 and does a little over 100 watts into 8 ohms.
Mark
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What do you mean by smaller? I think you are lost. Aleph 2 is 100 watt @ 8 ohm monoblock. 150 into 4 ohms so I was probably getting about 125 with my 6 ohm Dynaudios. Did you have the bias checked on your ksa250 before you dumped it? The bias setting is very critical to how a ksa amp sounds and holds true for all the ksa fixed bias amplifiers. If this was an S model that has variable bias then dumping it was a good idea as they are vastly inferior. Also, what kind of speakers are you using? What line stage and front end?
BTW: Just to clear things up... There are no bjt's in either the KSA50 or 100.
Mark
BTW: Just to clear things up... There are no bjt's in either the KSA50 or 100.
Mark
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I do not know in English language..
This is probably not my biggest fault.
Despite this, I'll try to clarify my point of view.
I think the Krell amplifiers represent a high standard.
Although I have not heard any of them. So I do not wish to judge.
But still, I can imagine the difference between the Krell and Pass amps.
I think the gist of the review put it, which I quoted earlier.
I would only do so, I think the two amplifier family relate to each other as, say, Nelson Freire and Ronan O'Hora piano playing. That is one of them is very clear, precise, while the other one is full of life (and very clear and precise).
Find it out, which one is which one.
This is probably not my biggest fault.
Despite this, I'll try to clarify my point of view.
I think the Krell amplifiers represent a high standard.
Although I have not heard any of them. So I do not wish to judge.
But still, I can imagine the difference between the Krell and Pass amps.
I think the gist of the review put it, which I quoted earlier.
I would only do so, I think the two amplifier family relate to each other as, say, Nelson Freire and Ronan O'Hora piano playing. That is one of them is very clear, precise, while the other one is full of life (and very clear and precise).
Find it out, which one is which one.
I think the Krell carries the Snob Appeal, which some love to quickly dismiss as junk, even if it met 90% of their expectations. People love to hate the brand. But D'Augustino nailed that KSA-50 design. Not that it matters, (no offense) but the KSA did make it into the All Time 100 Best Component List (top 25?). It is a shame none of the Pass amps made the list.
The Krell Clone with good (not even Great) components can, and do, sound very good. I asked around here, and the one I built has the 2SA1943/2SC5200 output devices, which I suspect have a 50% chance of being fake, and it STILL sounds great. I plan on ripping out these devices and replacing them with the FJL4315/4215 devices I know are real.
Now what I always wanted to build was a Levinson ML-2 Clone. These are only 25 watts/channel and can drive anything. I don't think there is an amp like it that can cause such a bidding frenzy on fleabay.
EDIT - yes, while the Original KSA series was incredible, the KSA-S (sliding bias?) was a bit of a letdown.
The Krell Clone with good (not even Great) components can, and do, sound very good. I asked around here, and the one I built has the 2SA1943/2SC5200 output devices, which I suspect have a 50% chance of being fake, and it STILL sounds great. I plan on ripping out these devices and replacing them with the FJL4315/4215 devices I know are real.
Now what I always wanted to build was a Levinson ML-2 Clone. These are only 25 watts/channel and can drive anything. I don't think there is an amp like it that can cause such a bidding frenzy on fleabay.
EDIT - yes, while the Original KSA series was incredible, the KSA-S (sliding bias?) was a bit of a letdown.
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Find a schematic and you never know what may happen.
K&D, find my earlier posts where I attached the pcb layout and you can build your own Klone. Then I will consider your opinions with more weight.
Hello Gyuri
You right that is 100W and even Mr Pass wrote his favorite from the series the Aleph2.
Better than the Aleph4.
At first I chose the Aleph4 but after I sow not much difference (parts wise) between the two I modified my Aleph4 to 2.
Not finish yet so please guys do not ask about the sound.
Greetings Gabor
Koszi= thank you
So are the jim audio boards, the real deal !
Nice to hear john , please advise on the results and what speaker type being used.
Never give up on your dreams ...........
I have had both ( krell and Nelson's stuff) the difference is very load (read speaker ) dependent. I still have threshold and had Pass ( aleph mono's) had krell ( KSA200, 200s,fpb200) and the krell stuff sounded better on my custom ribbon and apogee's, the threshold and pass on maggies and my smaller monitors ( box speakers).
The krells came and went and i sold on the aleph's, to get more power, kept the threshold stuff, i have been a fan of Nelson's for decades and find the Threshold stuff beautifully made, simple
( Inside a krell is a nightmare) and reliable (the krell had issues) and sonically up my street .
Those slamming krell stuff i wanna believe had a bad krell , in need of service, my friend had one, he replaced it with Bel Canto mono blocs, it was a big improvment, until we serviced the krell ( new caps) re-biased ( less class-a) it easily blew the doors of his Bel Cantos afterwards.
He uses Maggies (1.6 modded) with subs ....
Krell amplifiers are unncessarily slammed IMO, yes i prefer the pass stuff, but that doesn't mean the krell stuff is no good.
You had a bad krell amp, i'm sure of it... what speakers ...?
Yes for sure , your krell needed re-capping ( all, every single board
) and the bias for sure , you have described exactly what they sound like when they need to be refurb..Yes that's why they buy gear from all over deh planet ....
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a.wayne:
My speakers are refurbed Maggie Tympani IVa. All these Class A amps mated well with the IVa's, with the Krell having the best bottom end control.
But the best bottom end control was a set of 1000 watt 1000ASP ICEPower Monoblocks. The ICEPower was a bit lacking on HF tho. Not as sweet as any of the three Class A...I BIAMPED (DCX2496) for a while but the difference in Gains between amps made it needlessly more complex, and now back to a single amp...switch between all four depending on my mood, and need of heat in my basement office.
My speakers are refurbed Maggie Tympani IVa. All these Class A amps mated well with the IVa's, with the Krell having the best bottom end control.
But the best bottom end control was a set of 1000 watt 1000ASP ICEPower Monoblocks. The ICEPower was a bit lacking on HF tho. Not as sweet as any of the three Class A...I BIAMPED (DCX2496) for a while but the difference in Gains between amps made it needlessly more complex, and now back to a single amp...switch between all four depending on my mood, and need of heat in my basement office.
FWIW: The original KSA-50 only had a pair of OP devices. It was upped to three per side on the original board design for extra margin and SOA...
John65b... I used to have a full blown set of Tympany IV back in the late 70's... I was never as enthralled by them as most people seem to be. I don't remember what amplification I had back then but it was probably biamped ARC. Even today the ARC D-76 is still a decent toobe amp. I just find them not to be a very good speaker to judge an amp by because they have a sound all their own. The later magnaplanars are quite a bit different then the Tympani are although I would still not own a pair. My favorite speaker was really the Martin Logan CLS. It was very finikey in regards set up and the panels can resonate causing a buzzing sound when played at high levels. But when set up properly they're like a window to the world.
Mark
John65b... I used to have a full blown set of Tympany IV back in the late 70's... I was never as enthralled by them as most people seem to be. I don't remember what amplification I had back then but it was probably biamped ARC. Even today the ARC D-76 is still a decent toobe amp. I just find them not to be a very good speaker to judge an amp by because they have a sound all their own. The later magnaplanars are quite a bit different then the Tympani are although I would still not own a pair. My favorite speaker was really the Martin Logan CLS. It was very finikey in regards set up and the panels can resonate causing a buzzing sound when played at high levels. But when set up properly they're like a window to the world.
Mark
FWIW: The original KSA-50 only had a pair of OP devices per rail. It was upped to three per rail on the original board design for extra margin and SOA...
John65b... I used to have a full blown set of Tympany IV back in the late 70's... I was never as enthralled by them as most people seem to be. I don't remember what amplification I had back then but it was probably biamped ARC. Even today the ARC D-76 is still a decent toobe amp. I just find them not to be a very good speaker to judge an amp by because they have a sound all their own. The later magnaplanars are quite a bit different then the Tympani are although I would still not own a pair. My favorite speaker was really the Martin Logan CLS. It was very finikey in regards set up and the panels can resonate causing a buzzing sound when played at high levels. But when set up properly they're like a window to the world.
"I think the Krell carries the Snob Appeal, which some love to quickly dismiss as junk, even if it met 90% of their expectations. People love to hate the brand. But D'Augustino nailed that KSA-50 design. Not that it matters, (no offense) but the KSA did make it into the All Time 100 Best Component List (top 25?). It is a shame none of the Pass amps made the list."
I agree to some exent on the snob appeal, they were very expensive. The best solid satte amp I have ever owned hands down was the KSA-80B. A virtual power house that you could even arc weld with if need be. It sounds very much like the KSA-50 except just way more powerful and with a bit more high frequency extension. I've been threatening to either Klone it or just buy another used one in the near future.
Mark
John65b... I used to have a full blown set of Tympany IV back in the late 70's... I was never as enthralled by them as most people seem to be. I don't remember what amplification I had back then but it was probably biamped ARC. Even today the ARC D-76 is still a decent toobe amp. I just find them not to be a very good speaker to judge an amp by because they have a sound all their own. The later magnaplanars are quite a bit different then the Tympani are although I would still not own a pair. My favorite speaker was really the Martin Logan CLS. It was very finikey in regards set up and the panels can resonate causing a buzzing sound when played at high levels. But when set up properly they're like a window to the world.
"I think the Krell carries the Snob Appeal, which some love to quickly dismiss as junk, even if it met 90% of their expectations. People love to hate the brand. But D'Augustino nailed that KSA-50 design. Not that it matters, (no offense) but the KSA did make it into the All Time 100 Best Component List (top 25?). It is a shame none of the Pass amps made the list."
I agree to some exent on the snob appeal, they were very expensive. The best solid satte amp I have ever owned hands down was the KSA-80B. A virtual power house that you could even arc weld with if need be. It sounds very much like the KSA-50 except just way more powerful and with a bit more high frequency extension. I've been threatening to either Klone it or just buy another used one in the near future.
Mark
The tympani required big amplifiers, those ARC would be way too small .....
Agostino believed the KMA 160 mono's to be the better arc welder .....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/133177-converting-krell-ksa-80b-kma-160-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/133177-converting-krell-ksa-80b-kma-160-a.html
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Oh, I definately tried big SS amps on them back then. Problem was not many decent ones around that time period existed. I do remember using an ESS 500 amp on them. That was a decent sounding amp back then but they regularly went up in flames. I seem to remember settling on two Dual 76's and those amps could actually drive them to decent levels. I only kept them for about a year, perhaps a little longer than that. They were not disappointing but just not worth the real estate they took up.
I drove my CLS's with the KSA-80 and later on my Dynaudios which I still own today. The 80 left and was replaced by a BAT VK-60. That is the most amazing amp I have ever owned. I am actually looking to buy another one and missed one on Audiogon by jyst a few hours two days ago... One piece I should have never sold...
Mark
I drove my CLS's with the KSA-80 and later on my Dynaudios which I still own today. The 80 left and was replaced by a BAT VK-60. That is the most amazing amp I have ever owned. I am actually looking to buy another one and missed one on Audiogon by jyst a few hours two days ago... One piece I should have never sold...
Mark
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