John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II

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Here is the CP650 datasheet

I would also like to mention, that kp903a are stable at SE output stage with 36V power supply, in spite that 20V are in datasheet. Even in industrial equipment, they work at 40V. I do not know, why the datasheet is so conservative. Moreover, I use the military specified version of these transistors, the 2P903A. Important difference between CP650 and kp903a, the last has all pins isolated from the stud mount case , while CP650 is not.

Thank you, but I did not find any plot or number describing voltage noise of the part.
 
I've decided not to bother with this, someone sent me an article by Doug Self from a long time ago wherein he found nothing at all.

Secondly Ed, the plots you posted months ago and your description of "conduction thresholds" or dead zones _ARE_ rectification. Any VI characteristic that shows, as at least one plot you posted, a flat spot at the origin will rectify.

I was asked Tuesday to basicly stop criticising someone who wanted to make a vacuum microphone (so it would be noiseless). Please don't take it that I am comparing this to that, but consider what I said.

Scott,

I don't think we have ever disagreed on microdiodes not being a real concern.

The plot you mention that I showed is of a single unusual bad part.

The resulting testing showed the common failure mode of connectors is due to sulfur contamination not oxides. Sulfur when combined with the conductor metal forms larger molecules. That stands off any clean metal to metal contacts. When power is applied there can be molecular movement reestablishing contact if the sulfur contamination is not too large. That is not rectification, but explains the observed results of tapping on a microphone or just using a surge to blow away the barrier and temporarily reestablishing contact.

I showed a link to an IEEE paper that explained much of the low voltage contact issues. Turns out there is nothing new here, just information that is not commonly known.

I put the unusual sample down to possible diode effects from a manufacturing defect and aging or possibly oxidation. It is an interesting anomaly. It did not relate to normal switch or connector issues. It was just one of those astounding results that invite further inquiry. So in the process I did learn a bit.

Now as to a vacuum microphone, an older version was the electrostatic microphone. You had two closely spaced screens and amplified the signal generated between them. Of course to get the bias current going you had to use a radioactive source on one side. Besides the obvious problem, it turns out it was extremely noisy!
 
Well we got as far as evacuating just one side (the side with the noise of course).

LOL at the "side with the noise" :p
Maybe you should have suggested to remove the "side with the noise" from transistors and ICs also !

Seriously, I too had to deal with "corporate stupidity", but not at this level. The things I had to argue against were not physically impossible, only inefficient, time consuming and would have made the maintenance more difficult later.

The sad thing is that in a few years, that person might become your boss, if he is not already.
 
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I think that an "engineer's" view of physics and science is fairly limited. Just my experience in such matters.


Is that "Takes one to know one" or "The pot calling the kettle black". Though I do prefer copper kettles. I know I shouldn't dismiss water powered cars or electric cars with super-capacitors that are recarged in 5min at 2000 Amps but I can't help it.
 
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There you go with all that science and physics again Scott raining on the parade. I bet you are not allowed on the perpetual motion forums either.

Thanks for your noise measurement circuit idea, I tweaked it a bit (parts unavailable) and built one works quite well.

I know more discrete parts are disappearing every month, it's hard when you realize that you probably got one of the last batches before the obsolete notice.
 
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I am hoping, with time, that we can go further in what makes quality audio possible and practical.
Like any manufactured commodity, hi fi can be mass produced, made to the cheapest tolerable standard where it is almost not acceptable sound at all. On the other hand, a great deal of time and care can be put into a similar item, and it will be used with delight, and remembered for decades, even after it has been 'retired'.
The Vendetta Research phono stages are an example of this. They were virtually hand made, with gold plated circuit boards, every part individually cleaned and aligned before insertion and soldering. This is the way that I evolved to make the best circuits that I can. Is it too much? Well, not if you want to leave a legacy of quality design and execution.
Now, how much is too much? Well, very extreme cases can be considered more 'metal sculpture' than just good shielding, but very wealthy customers still demand it.
This is where DIY can be very effective in making quality audio electronics at an 'affordable' price for the rest of us, however we MUST KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT in audio design, if our personal labors are to be subjectively successful. This is what I try to contribute here, along with others across the world, at this time, because many electronic engineers do not agree with us that it is that important to pay attention to physical details, parts quality, and circuit topology. Well, to each, his own.
 
For the 2P903A, the noise range is 0,5...1 nV/sqHz, typical value is 0,7.

I would also like to have independent confirmation of these data, hope that the member of this forum, the BEAR , will be able to report the measured results (he is doing tests now).

Is there any plot of voltage noise density vs. frequency? Frankly speaking, I am quite suspicious to soviet/russian parts and their specs. I know what I speak about, I had worked on mil. projects in deep past.
 
The Vendetta Research phono stages are an example of this. They were virtually hand made, with gold plated circuit boards, every part individually cleaned and aligned before insertion and soldering. This is the way that I evolved to make the best circuits that I can. Is it too much? Well, not if you want to leave a legacy of quality design and execution.

John, it was confirmed many times, that important breakthrouths happened when a designer escaped out of the mainstream.
Within mainstream, a simplified but convenient vision of technical things, protected by bosses and executive managers, preclude that any real achievement could happen. IMHO, 99% of designers try to find a "gold" in an empty soil, infinitely repeating the same dogm, linearity, linearity ... I would propose to switch to another dogm - information reach sound
 
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Is there any plot of voltage noise density vs. frequency? Frankly speaking, I am quite suspicious to soviet/russian parts and their specs. I know what I speak about, I had worked on mil. projects in deep past.

Here it is, Noise EMF in nV/sqHz, vs frequency in Hz, Id=10mA, Uds=10V
The 2P903A parts are close to the lower curve.
 

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I am hoping, with time, that we can go further in what makes quality audio possible and practical.
Like any manufactured commodity, hi fi can be mass produced, made to the cheapest tolerable standard where it is almost not acceptable sound at all. On the other hand, a great deal of time and care can be put into a similar item, and it will be used with delight, and remembered for decades, even after it has been 'retired'.
The Vendetta Research phono stages are an example of this. They were virtually hand made, with gold plated circuit boards, every part individually cleaned and aligned before insertion and soldering. This is the way that I evolved to make the best circuits that I can. Is it too much? Well, not if you want to leave a legacy of quality design and execution.
Now, how much is too much? Well, very extreme cases can be considered more 'metal sculpture' than just good shielding, but very wealthy customers still demand it.
This is where DIY can be very effective in making quality audio electronics at an 'affordable' price for the rest of us, however we MUST KNOW WHAT IS IMPORTANT in audio design, if our personal labors are to be subjectively successful. This is what I try to contribute here, along with others across the world, at this time, because many electronic engineers do not agree with us that it is that important to pay attention to physical details, parts quality, and circuit topology. Well, to each, his own.

Wise words, but the way music is sensed by people can't be measured. Do you agee?
 
Joao, that sort of opinion sort of 'throws the baby out with the bathwater'. It isn't that the way we 'people' sense sound quality is not reflected in measurements, but that 'traditional' audio measurements, such as THD, are relatively poor in predicting actual sound quality, consistently and adequately. I personally believe in test equipment measurements and always look forward to 'Stereophile' each month, and its measurements of different audio products.
 
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