Hello John,
I did in #9
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...able-get-rid-horn-coloration.html#post2706991
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Interesting , If you thought them so bad,why did you go ahead and DIY one..?
Hello,
The WE 32 A / Altec 32 horn is a very good sounding little horn. But everybody will not agree about a total lack of coloration.
Here is an excerpt of the translation of a paper published originally in japanese in the magazine "tube kingdom". (Translation performed by my friend Julien Sullerot):
"WE555 on compact horn Western Electric (WE) 32A:"
"The WE32A horn was released in 1941 as a monitor speaker for midrange channel of the broadcasting 753A 3-way system and it was used with the "722A" driver.
In order to fit inside the small size enclosure, the horn is bent perpendicularly, which is a special feature of this horn. It was also later adopted for the 2 way systems (“753B” “753C”). There is a same type of horn, numbered KS, and also with Altec 32A number for the A8 systems, so there are several models.
Doi : Next, we listen of the original WE32A genuine horn. As for this first, it is normally to install horn in [hi] direction, but because there is a difficulty in problem of distance to audition position or the being connected of sound, installing horn in the downward look, it did the audition. Good impression with a high sense of sound density, but a small horn sound. Beautiful sounding horn.
Atarashi: The placement might be irregular; it yields to a sound source point below the horn. Even if it gives a rather small sound in the listening room, it sounds good even with such a testing position.
Well, concerning the playback sound, if you try to express it only in one word, you think that it sounds totally as the 753C system. As for 753C, which is a system that combines a 713A driver+32A horn and a 15 inch diameter woofer, the monitor which reproduces the program source closely looks like this faithfully; it sounds the same way.
Shinoda: Your expression, when you mean a good sound, it actually is a great sound. The impression is a small sound and a good sense of intonation, high sense of density, it gives a good impression. WE555 sound comes out with energy.
Doi: It is a very beautiful sounding horn. Sound has a good stability and we could keep on listening comfortably.
Atarashi: But I feel like a slightly unique coloration of this system. In other words, I do not mean the sound principle is not good. The singing of “Doris Day”, above all, is always a sweet sounding voice, and here it is sounding like a depression. ‘’Kay Star’’ is similar.
Shinoda: Both seem to be women, the listening exceeds the kind of feeling which is emphasized. Such sounding would probably be the taste of the person who mainly listens to woman vocal.
Atarashi: Also when Casal plays, it exceeds the performance, but as you say, it might be good like this.
Atarashi: The intensity for Bach's music, in this performance, the listening is exceeding better. The soft sounds is nice and yet, far away; the impression that the music does not become weak, the capability of WE555 is able to show is properly. In this sense, it is a very good combination.
Shinoda: I have to say a personal preference: I want a little more depth in the midrange. I just feel that the voice on "Kay Starr" is thinned a bit. I think it would be perfect but with a bit more of added weight to the voice.
Doi: I think it is enough. I fell in love with the mature voice of "Doris Day".
Atarashi: To give someone’s extra taste, sound convinces me at each play."
Best regards from Paris, France,
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
The WE 32 A / Altec 32 horn is a very good sounding little horn. But everybody will not agree about a total lack of coloration.
Here is an excerpt of the translation of a paper published originally in japanese in the magazine "tube kingdom". (Translation performed by my friend Julien Sullerot):
"WE555 on compact horn Western Electric (WE) 32A:"
"The WE32A horn was released in 1941 as a monitor speaker for midrange channel of the broadcasting 753A 3-way system and it was used with the "722A" driver.
In order to fit inside the small size enclosure, the horn is bent perpendicularly, which is a special feature of this horn. It was also later adopted for the 2 way systems (“753B” “753C”). There is a same type of horn, numbered KS, and also with Altec 32A number for the A8 systems, so there are several models.
Doi : Next, we listen of the original WE32A genuine horn. As for this first, it is normally to install horn in [hi] direction, but because there is a difficulty in problem of distance to audition position or the being connected of sound, installing horn in the downward look, it did the audition. Good impression with a high sense of sound density, but a small horn sound. Beautiful sounding horn.
Atarashi: The placement might be irregular; it yields to a sound source point below the horn. Even if it gives a rather small sound in the listening room, it sounds good even with such a testing position.
Well, concerning the playback sound, if you try to express it only in one word, you think that it sounds totally as the 753C system. As for 753C, which is a system that combines a 713A driver+32A horn and a 15 inch diameter woofer, the monitor which reproduces the program source closely looks like this faithfully; it sounds the same way.
Shinoda: Your expression, when you mean a good sound, it actually is a great sound. The impression is a small sound and a good sense of intonation, high sense of density, it gives a good impression. WE555 sound comes out with energy.
Doi: It is a very beautiful sounding horn. Sound has a good stability and we could keep on listening comfortably.
Atarashi: But I feel like a slightly unique coloration of this system. In other words, I do not mean the sound principle is not good. The singing of “Doris Day”, above all, is always a sweet sounding voice, and here it is sounding like a depression. ‘’Kay Star’’ is similar.
Shinoda: Both seem to be women, the listening exceeds the kind of feeling which is emphasized. Such sounding would probably be the taste of the person who mainly listens to woman vocal.
Atarashi: Also when Casal plays, it exceeds the performance, but as you say, it might be good like this.
Atarashi: The intensity for Bach's music, in this performance, the listening is exceeding better. The soft sounds is nice and yet, far away; the impression that the music does not become weak, the capability of WE555 is able to show is properly. In this sense, it is a very good combination.
Shinoda: I have to say a personal preference: I want a little more depth in the midrange. I just feel that the voice on "Kay Starr" is thinned a bit. I think it would be perfect but with a bit more of added weight to the voice.
Doi: I think it is enough. I fell in love with the mature voice of "Doris Day".
Atarashi: To give someone’s extra taste, sound convinces me at each play."
Best regards from Paris, France,
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
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Jean-Michel, Thank you for posting that Japanese commentary. I have had little success finding information online about the 32 horn other than the various WE and Altec speakers it was used in, so I enjoyed reading those comments.
A.Wayne, The reason I built the DIY speakers is simple. I had the opportunity to hear a set of WE 753c speakers (in new cabinets) and I was trying to duplicate some of the good things I heard in the WE. Just to be clear, I am not saying the 32 horn is without any colorations; every transducer, every enclosure, every crossover component has colorations. I am simply saying that the speakers I have heard using the 32 horn do not have the "horn colorations" that have bothered me in the past.
I am genuinely puzzled why there aren't more comments from people using the 32 horn. It's readily available at reasonable prices and it fits modest sized enclosures.
A.Wayne, The reason I built the DIY speakers is simple. I had the opportunity to hear a set of WE 753c speakers (in new cabinets) and I was trying to duplicate some of the good things I heard in the WE. Just to be clear, I am not saying the 32 horn is without any colorations; every transducer, every enclosure, every crossover component has colorations. I am simply saying that the speakers I have heard using the 32 horn do not have the "horn colorations" that have bothered me in the past.
I am genuinely puzzled why there aren't more comments from people using the 32 horn. It's readily available at reasonable prices and it fits modest sized enclosures.
My acoustic engeneer was kind enough to borrow me his Phonic PAA3 handheld audio analyzer for a few days, to make some measurements.
What is particularly interesting, is that the Beyma TPL150, crossed at 1khz, shows a peak at ~ 3khz, which does not appear, when crossed at 1,8khz.
Someone might explain why this is so.....
Its also interesting that BOTH do have lower output in the higher register.
I made a test, recently, replacing the VIVA Valve, single ended amp, with a Jeff Rowland, Model 2. Treble is on screen a littlebit more extended, but to me, it sounded unpleasant and too acentuated.
The Beyma with the wave guide, which i am making, will certainly extend and be flat down to 1khz. Now, at 1,5khz, it starts to get out of steam.
the pictures can be visualized better at my forum :
http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4965#post4965
Here the results :
1st. configuration :
Fane Studio 8M : lowpass 1,2khz first order
Vitavox S2/Coral H104 : highpass 1khz first order
microfone 1m from the floor, 3m from the speakers :
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
2nd. configuration :
Fane Studio 8M : lowpass 1,2khz first order
Beyma TPL 150 : highpass 1,8khz first order
microfone 1m from the floor, 3m from the speakers :
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
Beyma TPL 150 : highpass 1khz first order
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
What is particularly interesting, is that the Beyma TPL150, crossed at 1khz, shows a peak at ~ 3khz, which does not appear, when crossed at 1,8khz.
Someone might explain why this is so.....
Its also interesting that BOTH do have lower output in the higher register.
I made a test, recently, replacing the VIVA Valve, single ended amp, with a Jeff Rowland, Model 2. Treble is on screen a littlebit more extended, but to me, it sounded unpleasant and too acentuated.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Beyma with the wave guide, which i am making, will certainly extend and be flat down to 1khz. Now, at 1,5khz, it starts to get out of steam.
the pictures can be visualized better at my forum :
http://www.audiovoice-acoustics.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4965#post4965
Here the results :
1st. configuration :
Fane Studio 8M : lowpass 1,2khz first order
Vitavox S2/Coral H104 : highpass 1khz first order
microfone 1m from the floor, 3m from the speakers :
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
2nd. configuration :
Fane Studio 8M : lowpass 1,2khz first order
Beyma TPL 150 : highpass 1,8khz first order
microfone 1m from the floor, 3m from the speakers :
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
Beyma TPL 150 : highpass 1khz first order
microfone 80cm from the floor, 4m from the speakers ( listening position )
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Member
Joined 2003
I wouldn't worry about horn coloration with that nice looking, very reflective, coffee table between me and the speakers (remove/replace it). Consider investing in a DSP crossover so you can achieve smoother frequency response and lower driver excursion than available with single component filters. The additional ADA conversion will do far less harm than choppy FR.
With higher frequency and amplitude resolution, measure and correct FR, both on and off axis, reverse phase null, etc. etc. etc. Then see if you still hear coloration.
With higher frequency and amplitude resolution, measure and correct FR, both on and off axis, reverse phase null, etc. etc. etc. Then see if you still hear coloration.
Multi way is asking for problems, I did try it with two two way loudspeaker systems to introduce a super tweeter to open up the sound more.
It did only introduce holes in the stereo image. You get only interference problems with the multi way approach.
I could solve it much better with modifying the filter of the midhigh horn. I still do not know what the mechanism precise is but with measurements and listening I can hear when I got the right configuration. I think I correct the phase or get a positive propagating pressure in the horn for high frequencies.
Sound wise I hear the horn open up, and it losing the horn coloring and get a sparkling high frequency response and big sound stage.
When I see this picture It is probably a horror scenario for the sound stage. And your measurement show the huge variations in the spl and the interference will also color the sound. 10dB variation is quite normal but it shout rise at the low end and in the HF area to sound right in my ears it is a bit loudness curve behavior.
And definitely not a rise in the midrange it will show voices very clear and will have a thin sound.
It did only introduce holes in the stereo image. You get only interference problems with the multi way approach.
I could solve it much better with modifying the filter of the midhigh horn. I still do not know what the mechanism precise is but with measurements and listening I can hear when I got the right configuration. I think I correct the phase or get a positive propagating pressure in the horn for high frequencies.
Sound wise I hear the horn open up, and it losing the horn coloring and get a sparkling high frequency response and big sound stage.
When I see this picture It is probably a horror scenario for the sound stage. And your measurement show the huge variations in the spl and the interference will also color the sound. 10dB variation is quite normal but it shout rise at the low end and in the HF area to sound right in my ears it is a bit loudness curve behavior.
And definitely not a rise in the midrange it will show voices very clear and will have a thin sound.
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Looking at the picture, and notwithstanding the curves or comments on the xover... the first thing I would do is to get the speakers off the back wall... move them out a bit, and switch the position of the woofer boxes with the horns... toe the horns [in so that they aim in such a way that the on axis point crosses a foot or so in front of where you sit... lose the coffee table... the diffusers are far too high on the way... they need to be at least for the side walls at ear height, to rid urself of the direct reflection of the highs...
with the meter where you have it, you also are reading the room to a substantial degree, that includes the dreaded "floor bounce" as well as whatever other energy is reflected from the other surfaces... one might want to think about the ceiling too... and a big concern is what is on the rear wall, and where you are sitting WRT the rear wall, that will have a big effect on what you hear...
Also, your room is far too clean.
I am also concerned about the tweeter firing dead bang on the rear of the lower horn and grazing the upper...
Other than that, ummmm...
_-_-bear
with the meter where you have it, you also are reading the room to a substantial degree, that includes the dreaded "floor bounce" as well as whatever other energy is reflected from the other surfaces... one might want to think about the ceiling too... and a big concern is what is on the rear wall, and where you are sitting WRT the rear wall, that will have a big effect on what you hear...
Also, your room is far too clean.
I am also concerned about the tweeter firing dead bang on the rear of the lower horn and grazing the upper...
Other than that, ummmm...
_-_-bear
I'm glad you said that. I was feeling distinctly inferior.Also, your room is far too clean.
(Other comments spot on)
hi Paul
funny. Listening with the Beymas, of which i feel it sounds quit neutral/natural, the coffee table stays there as well
Why do you think so ? I observe soundstage and 3D imaging actually much better, than in the previous rooms the system was installed before. The carpet also has a great influence , and responsable for good acoustic behavior in this room.
The picture might not show it well, but the speakers are already a half meter distant from the back wall.
below the diffusers i am planning to put a stand for books......
Sure. I am reading exactly what i hear on normal listening position. Should that not be the right place to measure ?
curtains :
My new listening room - Page 2 - Audio Voice Acoustics
treble sounds fine to me, despite the rather ugly SPL response curve.
If the curve would be straight, treble would be too bright to me. Tried out that already...
angeloitacare , try to measure one speaker at a time.
If you measure both speakers playing a mono pink noise you get tons of comb filtering in the high, and you also get a 3dB difference in level between the low (in phase sommation => +6dB) and the high (quadratic sommation that can start in the midrange if you are not precisely centred => +3dB)
If you measure both speakers playing a mono pink noise you get tons of comb filtering in the high, and you also get a 3dB difference in level between the low (in phase sommation => +6dB) and the high (quadratic sommation that can start in the midrange if you are not precisely centred => +3dB)
Angelo,
Without coming over to hear your system it is so difficult to say what is what.
The speakers might be fine, and they are just showing you what the source is presenting!
As far as measuring, I'd measure each driver at a distance equal to ~ 1/3m from the big horn, on axis. See what that curve looks like. Ideally you'd use some FFT software for that, but it's not essential at that distance.
This will tell you what I would term the "native" response of each horn. Combining that into a composite response is a bit tricky, but you can more or less do that mentally if need be, or by old fashioned paste and cut, etc... Of course you will not exactly see the xovers, so I'd also turn off the other horns when doing this measurement... this way you can see how much of the things you are measuring are speaker and how much are speaker/room interactions...
Again freeware FFT software and the mic from ur RTA will give you better info than the RTA gives by an order or more of magnitude...
Linkwitz' site gives the instructions for making a good measurement mic... cheap.
Also the RTA mic may or may not be accurate above 10kHz. Many are not. We have no way to know.
I personally would not want a dead flat response out to 20kHz at the LISTENING POSITION in most cases... and almost certainly not a rising response.
Again I urge you to put the horns as wide as possible in the room, and the woofers inside, and they should be set back so that they have a shot at "time alignment" with the horns...
I have reservations about the FANE 8 driver, although it does have the requisite "climbing response" based on what I measured of a pair about 15 years back now... and I thought Fane went bankrupt, so I wonder who picked up the line?? Maybe they are doing things better now.
Bottom line is that the system you have should sound pretty darn good... or seems capable of doing so... and again, it may be time to reconsider your commercial amps and preamps, the interconnect and the source, as the speakers might be telling you the "truth"? That may be the only problem??
_-_-bear
Without coming over to hear your system it is so difficult to say what is what.
The speakers might be fine, and they are just showing you what the source is presenting!
As far as measuring, I'd measure each driver at a distance equal to ~ 1/3m from the big horn, on axis. See what that curve looks like. Ideally you'd use some FFT software for that, but it's not essential at that distance.
This will tell you what I would term the "native" response of each horn. Combining that into a composite response is a bit tricky, but you can more or less do that mentally if need be, or by old fashioned paste and cut, etc... Of course you will not exactly see the xovers, so I'd also turn off the other horns when doing this measurement... this way you can see how much of the things you are measuring are speaker and how much are speaker/room interactions...
Again freeware FFT software and the mic from ur RTA will give you better info than the RTA gives by an order or more of magnitude...
Linkwitz' site gives the instructions for making a good measurement mic... cheap.
Also the RTA mic may or may not be accurate above 10kHz. Many are not. We have no way to know.
I personally would not want a dead flat response out to 20kHz at the LISTENING POSITION in most cases... and almost certainly not a rising response.
Again I urge you to put the horns as wide as possible in the room, and the woofers inside, and they should be set back so that they have a shot at "time alignment" with the horns...
I have reservations about the FANE 8 driver, although it does have the requisite "climbing response" based on what I measured of a pair about 15 years back now... and I thought Fane went bankrupt, so I wonder who picked up the line?? Maybe they are doing things better now.
Bottom line is that the system you have should sound pretty darn good... or seems capable of doing so... and again, it may be time to reconsider your commercial amps and preamps, the interconnect and the source, as the speakers might be telling you the "truth"? That may be the only problem??
_-_-bear
I believe that when you try to eq out the resonances in a horn, the levels of the resonances vary as the volume changes (-5db at 3khz 80db may need -7.5db at 90db at 3khz). And the reflections are still there (even though they measure flat), it would show up on a waterfall plot.
Time alignment ? even 24db LR is only lined up at the crossover point (better than nothing I suppose).
angeloitacare, nice looking horns there.
Since more of the sound comes at you (in horns depending on dispersion patterns), you probably don't get as much depth (from the bounce off the front wall).
Norman
Time alignment ? even 24db LR is only lined up at the crossover point (better than nothing I suppose).
angeloitacare, nice looking horns there.
Since more of the sound comes at you (in horns depending on dispersion patterns), you probably don't get as much depth (from the bounce off the front wall).
Norman
I hate to throw cold water over angeloitacare's measurements, but to save him a lot of frustration and hair pulling someone needs to point out the futility of measuring the "steady-state" response of speakers in the far-field using a RTA to try to judge whether the frequency response is balanced or not. (bear alludes to this problem)
When far enough away a steady-state measurement (ungated FFT, slow swept sine, or RTA measuring pink noise) will be more or less showing the power response of the speakers + room modal contribution, rather than the true on axis response of the speakers, and can in no way be used to judge whether the speaker is balanced, particularly through the midrange and treble.
A speaker with flat on axis response and falling power response / increasing directivity at high frequencies (as is the case for most speakers) will have a falling power response in the treble, and this will be reflected by the falling RTA response at high frequencies.
And yet what we hear in the midrange and treble is almost entirely the on-axis spectral balance, not the overall power response. Any attempt to determine or tweak the frequency response based on such a steady-state measurement taken well back in a room will lead to a very non-flat on axis response that sounds terrible. (For example trying to boost the treble to make the RTA response in the treble look flat will cause a rising on-axis treble response that will be far too bright)
Now its true that because horns are a lot more directional than more typical speakers the error in the steady-state response reading will be less than typical, but it will still be a large error, especially in the high treble.
Trying to measure horns of that size in that room with a gated FFT measurement would be a real challenge, but with the microphone 1-2 metres from the half way point of the upper and lower horn and a very short gate time it should still be possible to get a reasonable reflection free on-axis reading that is usable down to 500-1000Hz or so that would allow the midrange to treble balance (and crossover region) to be judged - certainly far more accurately than a steady state response...
Holm Impulse or the free version of ARTA are a couple of excellent FFT based programs that could be used.
As I said, I don't want to be a nay sayer, but trying to measure steady-state response in various locations of the room really doesn't tell you anything useful about the speakers, or correlate with how they actually sound, and is just an exercise in frustration and confusion when readings change throughout the room and don't correlate with what is heard.
When far enough away a steady-state measurement (ungated FFT, slow swept sine, or RTA measuring pink noise) will be more or less showing the power response of the speakers + room modal contribution, rather than the true on axis response of the speakers, and can in no way be used to judge whether the speaker is balanced, particularly through the midrange and treble.
A speaker with flat on axis response and falling power response / increasing directivity at high frequencies (as is the case for most speakers) will have a falling power response in the treble, and this will be reflected by the falling RTA response at high frequencies.
And yet what we hear in the midrange and treble is almost entirely the on-axis spectral balance, not the overall power response. Any attempt to determine or tweak the frequency response based on such a steady-state measurement taken well back in a room will lead to a very non-flat on axis response that sounds terrible. (For example trying to boost the treble to make the RTA response in the treble look flat will cause a rising on-axis treble response that will be far too bright)
Now its true that because horns are a lot more directional than more typical speakers the error in the steady-state response reading will be less than typical, but it will still be a large error, especially in the high treble.
Trying to measure horns of that size in that room with a gated FFT measurement would be a real challenge, but with the microphone 1-2 metres from the half way point of the upper and lower horn and a very short gate time it should still be possible to get a reasonable reflection free on-axis reading that is usable down to 500-1000Hz or so that would allow the midrange to treble balance (and crossover region) to be judged - certainly far more accurately than a steady state response...
Holm Impulse or the free version of ARTA are a couple of excellent FFT based programs that could be used.
As I said, I don't want to be a nay sayer, but trying to measure steady-state response in various locations of the room really doesn't tell you anything useful about the speakers, or correlate with how they actually sound, and is just an exercise in frustration and confusion when readings change throughout the room and don't correlate with what is heard.
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Never listened to Earl's waveguides, but my experience with normal horns is that one has to cheat by using soft-sounding amps. Personally I have have good experiences with a Tripath-amp and what also works very well are the solid state amps from Martion. Never heard a valve amp that is able to do that.
Maybe in combination with the Accustic Arts Tube DAC II (the only really softening digital source I know) it will work with any amp, but never heard it together with a horn.
Maybe in combination with the Accustic Arts Tube DAC II (the only really softening digital source I know) it will work with any amp, but never heard it together with a horn.
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If that is true, you say it is a lousy response when it would be smooth it would not be to difficult to measure the response in the room.
Yea when you do this do that it measures better it shout be easy to measure a good result on your listening position gated with a good system.
Don't quite follow what you're trying to say here ?
The problem with measuring gated right back at the listening position is the delay to first reflection is quite short, limiting the lowest frequency you can measure to a relatively high 2Khz or so. (Depending on room geometry etc)
To measure lower in frequency gated you need to get a bit closer to the speakers to increase the reflection free time, but not so close that you're into the near-field of the speaker. (Depends on the size and design of the speaker, the bigger the speaker the more problematic)
It's still better than trying to measure the upper mid/treble using a distant steady-state measurement though, which is just completely wrong in results. Different parts of the frequency spectrum need different measurement techniques when trying to do so in the constraints of a typical listening room.
here the measurements of the separate channels, measured mono from 2m distance:
Coral H104 , highpass 10khz, second order
Vitavox S2, tried with capacitor of 10mF, and 4,9mF, giving a theoretical cutoff
of 1,8khz, and 1khz. Whats interesting, that it looks like the capacitors have no effect on the frequency curve.....
I expected cutoff would begin right after theoretical cutoff, but it starts to rolloff at ~500hz
Beyma TPL-150, crossed at 1,8khz :
Fane Studio 8m , crossed at 150hz, and 1,2khz:
at 200hz, it starts to get out of steam, at 150hz its 5db less:
Vitavox AK156 :
Aura 1808 sub:
it seems there is overlapping between 500hz, and 1khz, of the Fane, and S2. If i cross S2 lower, at 500hz, could it be possible that coloration will be less ? or, i could try to highpass S2 second order.....
Coral H104 , highpass 10khz, second order
Vitavox S2, tried with capacitor of 10mF, and 4,9mF, giving a theoretical cutoff
of 1,8khz, and 1khz. Whats interesting, that it looks like the capacitors have no effect on the frequency curve.....
I expected cutoff would begin right after theoretical cutoff, but it starts to rolloff at ~500hz
Beyma TPL-150, crossed at 1,8khz :
Fane Studio 8m , crossed at 150hz, and 1,2khz:
at 200hz, it starts to get out of steam, at 150hz its 5db less:
Vitavox AK156 :
Aura 1808 sub:
it seems there is overlapping between 500hz, and 1khz, of the Fane, and S2. If i cross S2 lower, at 500hz, could it be possible that coloration will be less ? or, i could try to highpass S2 second order.....
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