start fresh...
if ya want a Linn, build one. Motors are available, build a custom chassis and you're set. only thing missing is the arm, and that can be procured easy enough.
Any good quality AC synchronous 300rpm motor will work. Then ya need a pulley, a platter, and some suspension bits. Or buy one of the Linn "clones"(which is really arguable...). Oh, the bearing and shaft are needed too (oops).
I've never heard a Linn I liked...but Roksan, now there's a turntable....
if ya want a Linn, build one. Motors are available, build a custom chassis and you're set. only thing missing is the arm, and that can be procured easy enough.
Any good quality AC synchronous 300rpm motor will work. Then ya need a pulley, a platter, and some suspension bits. Or buy one of the Linn "clones"(which is really arguable...). Oh, the bearing and shaft are needed too (oops).
I've never heard a Linn I liked...but Roksan, now there's a turntable....
Good experience with an Audio-Technica AT-PL120
I wanted a new phonograph a couple of years ago and came up with the Audio-technica. I wanted something decent that would also play 78's. I teamed it up with the Shure M97X cartridge because the Shure widegroove stylus fits in it. It was under $200 for turntable and $75 for the cartridge and needle from Amazon - deal! The isolation is unexpectedly good. I had it sitting on the floor in front of a kilowatt speaker through a Bag-End Elf processor with no feedback. I had to have the floor joists moving up and down a quarter of an inch with no trouble at all. The setup isn't too bad turned down too. There's a nice built in EQ if you don't have an external phono preamp, or you can switch the cartridge directly to the outputs for when you buy or put something together.
My main music source is CD's, so there's no way I'll spend $10 grand on some ** record player out of Stereophile. Figure what you're going to play on the thing. If it's your old high school records, they're beat up and in bad taste, but it's fun to relive the past. If you've got a library of records, spend a little, but if you only have a hand full, buy something cheap off E-bay to see if you need to develop a vinyl hobby. Use that to test out the phono pre you build.
I wanted a new phonograph a couple of years ago and came up with the Audio-technica. I wanted something decent that would also play 78's. I teamed it up with the Shure M97X cartridge because the Shure widegroove stylus fits in it. It was under $200 for turntable and $75 for the cartridge and needle from Amazon - deal! The isolation is unexpectedly good. I had it sitting on the floor in front of a kilowatt speaker through a Bag-End Elf processor with no feedback. I had to have the floor joists moving up and down a quarter of an inch with no trouble at all. The setup isn't too bad turned down too. There's a nice built in EQ if you don't have an external phono preamp, or you can switch the cartridge directly to the outputs for when you buy or put something together.
My main music source is CD's, so there's no way I'll spend $10 grand on some ** record player out of Stereophile. Figure what you're going to play on the thing. If it's your old high school records, they're beat up and in bad taste, but it's fun to relive the past. If you've got a library of records, spend a little, but if you only have a hand full, buy something cheap off E-bay to see if you need to develop a vinyl hobby. Use that to test out the phono pre you build.
Xerxes vs LP12
I bought a Xerxes for $150 that needed some TLC, which was given. Ended up giving to my audio partner, perhaps I should have kept it, but he'd invested a bunch of $$$, and I needed to give him some value for the $$$.
Dead simple table. Nice motor mount, good motor, way excellent bearing (but slightly odd, long and thin--maybe 4mm diameter if memory serves me correctly). Pure class A amp to drive the motor. All it needed was a bearing clean-up, a re-lube, some anti-sag plinth work and the tweaking of the electronics (set speed via my laser tach) . With a modded Rega RB250 on it, it does impress, and has a sound I could easily live with. I think it sounds much better than my Oracle.
Now, years ago a friend of a friend (Moray, I'm sure you may know whom I'm talking about here), compared a top dog LP12 set up by the Linn rep, Mike Remington, to his personal well set-up Oracle Delphi, w SME arm. Guess which one won? I wasn't present, but I have it from a very good friend (Dennis) that this was the truth. And Dennis has perhaps the best ears I know of. Perhaps since then the LP12 has surged ahead again. Perhaps not. I don't have an axe to grind against Linn, I just think it might not be the end all that some think it is (and Jeff, I know you are a pretty reasonable guy, I'm not stating that you think the LP12 is the best there is... it is good though).
I bought a Xerxes for $150 that needed some TLC, which was given. Ended up giving to my audio partner, perhaps I should have kept it, but he'd invested a bunch of $$$, and I needed to give him some value for the $$$.
Dead simple table. Nice motor mount, good motor, way excellent bearing (but slightly odd, long and thin--maybe 4mm diameter if memory serves me correctly). Pure class A amp to drive the motor. All it needed was a bearing clean-up, a re-lube, some anti-sag plinth work and the tweaking of the electronics (set speed via my laser tach) . With a modded Rega RB250 on it, it does impress, and has a sound I could easily live with. I think it sounds much better than my Oracle.
Now, years ago a friend of a friend (Moray, I'm sure you may know whom I'm talking about here), compared a top dog LP12 set up by the Linn rep, Mike Remington, to his personal well set-up Oracle Delphi, w SME arm. Guess which one won? I wasn't present, but I have it from a very good friend (Dennis) that this was the truth. And Dennis has perhaps the best ears I know of. Perhaps since then the LP12 has surged ahead again. Perhaps not. I don't have an axe to grind against Linn, I just think it might not be the end all that some think it is (and Jeff, I know you are a pretty reasonable guy, I'm not stating that you think the LP12 is the best there is... it is good though).
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No turntable can be considered the end.They all have their good and bad points.In general most expensive turntables are good no matter how simple they look.For the end user,many times what is important is not how good the good points are,but how less the bad points are annoying.The Linn is one of those turntables imo.Even its greatest weakness sounds impressive,that is, its slight upper bass warmth
Its dynamics also,more than make up for its lack of depth and imaging(compared to others).Finally,we all have our tastes.And that,yes,it could well be the end.
Its dynamics also,more than make up for its lack of depth and imaging(compared to others).Finally,we all have our tastes.And that,yes,it could well be the end.
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Good buys everywhere gents .........
Thorens TD125 w/ 2 Armboards - Rega and SME - Mint !! - eBay (item 170516688803 end time Jul-25-10 19:02:00 PDT)
Thorens TD125 w/ 2 Armboards - Rega and SME - Mint !! - eBay (item 170516688803 end time Jul-25-10 19:02:00 PDT)
Another LP if interested .....Linn LP-12 Sondek Nice Condition ...
Linn LP-12 Sondek For Sale | AudiogoN
Linn LP-12 Sondek For Sale | AudiogoN
I used an Empire 208 with an SME 3 tonearm and a V15 III for a few years and then switched to a mint Technics SL-1800 MKII with the same Shure V-15 III and an APT Holman preamp. I track at 1 gram even. the SME was capable of .75 with the V15 but I don't feel comfortable with that on the Technics.
I believe the SL-1800 is near identical to the SL-1200 series except it has built in suspension\isolation and fancier speed controls.
Its my favorite setup to date, I doubt i'll ever change anything unless I have to.
I believe the SL-1800 is near identical to the SL-1200 series except it has built in suspension\isolation and fancier speed controls.
Its my favorite setup to date, I doubt i'll ever change anything unless I have to.
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turntables, turntables, turntables...
there are good turntables of every type. Just look at well constructed and durable tables. I love all types. More recently I am looking for a good idler type.
Technics, Denon, Kenwood, etc for direct drives
Thorens, AR, Linn, Ariston, etc for belts
Rek-o-Kut, Garrard, Russco, for Idlers
I know I've missed lots. I guess as a beginning start with something you could listen to locally (through craigslist, local classifieds, etc), If new to turntables. Trust your ears.
there are good turntables of every type. Just look at well constructed and durable tables. I love all types. More recently I am looking for a good idler type.
Technics, Denon, Kenwood, etc for direct drives
Thorens, AR, Linn, Ariston, etc for belts
Rek-o-Kut, Garrard, Russco, for Idlers
I know I've missed lots. I guess as a beginning start with something you could listen to locally (through craigslist, local classifieds, etc), If new to turntables. Trust your ears.
I have a Technics SL-20 with a Pickering XV-15/625E that I use to occasionally digitize vinyl (300 record collection some of which have only been played twice.). Previous cartridge was an Empire 2000Z, and prior to that a M91ED. Each time the needle went I upgraded. I'm looking at getting a spare needle for the 625, but am also interested in a spare turntable as I have had the SL-20 since 1978 and it is starting to have noticeable rumble. I'm looking at the SL-1200 as a spare.
Question is should I get a spare needle for the Pickering, or look for a new cartridge/needle combination? I've been out of the audio market since 1985 so I'm kind of out of touch.
I've recently (past year) gotten back into working with amps and am designing my own tube amps. Previous amp was a Sony STR-5800 that I bought in78.
Question is should I get a spare needle for the Pickering, or look for a new cartridge/needle combination? I've been out of the audio market since 1985 so I'm kind of out of touch.
I've recently (past year) gotten back into working with amps and am designing my own tube amps. Previous amp was a Sony STR-5800 that I bought in78.
I'd say that the Pickering would be worth a new stylus, especially if you can get into the line contact/Shibata end of things. I would say that if you get an SL-1200 it would very much be the SL-20 which should be back-up deck. I had an SL-20 as my first table (bought a year or two before you got yours) and in retrospect it really wasn't any great shakes IMO. Speed stability was decent enough, but the base was really resonant and the tonearm wasn't wonderful, either. A new belt and some lube for the bearing might clear up the rumble, though I found the SL-20 a bit sensitive to what it is resting on as well. I went next to a Thorens TD-125 and it was a huge leap up in SQ. The SL-1200 would also be in a completely different league. There are also plenty of other decks of various designs that would do as fine a job (or better) with a bit of hunting.
I found that the next door neighbor of a friend of mine had two SL1200 mk 2s up for sale (ex wana-be DJ). He bought them several years ago, lost interest and packed them away. Looks almost like new (scratch on the top of the dome on the cover) and came with the manual, head shell, 45 adapter etc. for $250 so I got one.
I see what you mean about making it my primary and the SL20 a backup. What a tank! I'll probably tune up the SL20 and let my wife use it up stairs.
I see what you mean about making it my primary and the SL20 a backup. What a tank! I'll probably tune up the SL20 and let my wife use it up stairs.
I don't know if this is the right place to ask...
I owned a Thorens TD160/TP16 and I used a Pickering V15/DJ in it.
It was a beautiful sounding combination (to my ears).
Later, I bought an SL1200MK2, but it doesn't like the Pickering, it seems, sound is more agressive and there is some low end gone. Tried a second V15, same result.
Bought an orthofon concorde pro, sound is ok, but still not as good as it used to be with the Thorens TD160/TP16/V15.
The Technics is in great shape, checked all possible settings and freeplay.
Do I need a different cartridge for the SL1200?
Or should I look in different places.
(Amp is still my Musical Fidelity A3, as it was with the Thorens)
I owned a Thorens TD160/TP16 and I used a Pickering V15/DJ in it.
It was a beautiful sounding combination (to my ears).
Later, I bought an SL1200MK2, but it doesn't like the Pickering, it seems, sound is more agressive and there is some low end gone. Tried a second V15, same result.
Bought an orthofon concorde pro, sound is ok, but still not as good as it used to be with the Thorens TD160/TP16/V15.
The Technics is in great shape, checked all possible settings and freeplay.
Do I need a different cartridge for the SL1200?
Or should I look in different places.
(Amp is still my Musical Fidelity A3, as it was with the Thorens)
My 2 cents...
I'm now listening to a SME20 with an SME-V arm. This thing blew me out of my socks.
Comming from a Linn LP12 with a custom VDH cartridge, I thought I reached the top quite close. How far could I be wrong.
The SME20 with the V arm just has no sonic signature at all. It is simply not there. Using it with fairly simple cartridges will already give ashtonishing results.
Now after 1 year with a Orofon VirtusII i had the cash to upgrade to a VDH colibri. Now I'm entering heaven every time I play a reccord...
I'm now listening to a SME20 with an SME-V arm. This thing blew me out of my socks.
Comming from a Linn LP12 with a custom VDH cartridge, I thought I reached the top quite close. How far could I be wrong.
The SME20 with the V arm just has no sonic signature at all. It is simply not there. Using it with fairly simple cartridges will already give ashtonishing results.
Now after 1 year with a Orofon VirtusII i had the cash to upgrade to a VDH colibri. Now I'm entering heaven every time I play a reccord...
Attachments
Hey OneyedK,
Some cartridges just don't work well in certain tonearms. It's hard to say which will work with which, even though there are some objective specs that can be matched. The SL1200MK2 arm has an effective mass of 12g (I think...). That's on the heavy-ish side of medium. A really high compliance cartridge may not work at its best in that arm. A low-to-medium compliance, medium mass cartridge might be a better match. Maybe a Denon DL-110? I'm using one of those at the moment, with the headshell weight installed. I like that cartridge a lot in my SL1200MK2. I can't promise you'll like the Denon sound, though.
Alignment was critical for me. Just the tiniest bit off and the sound went bad (thin, "scratchy", lacking bass). Technics recommends a Stevenson alignment for the 1200's arm. I found that using my Denneson Soundtraktor (Baerwald alignment) did not yield the best result. There's a Stevenson protractor you can download from vinylengine.com. (Cartridge Alignment Protractors | Free Turntable, Tonearm & Cartridge Tools | Vinyl Engine) That's the one that worked best for me. I used that and then used the included Technics alignment tool as a double-check. Once I got the cartridge mounted so that the alignment checked out with both the vinylengine Stevenson protractor and the stock alignment tool, the sound fell right into place. (Yes, the little plastic tool was completely accurate!)
--
I have an SME 20/2 and can attest to that. Weirdly enough I am using my SME 3009 Series II (w/Zu Denon DL-103) without any issues despite the fact that the 20 was designed for the SME IV, and V. It is beyond neutral, and extremely quiet - in fact I have not heard anything with less mechanical noise, it's pretty impressive. It imparts no character at all to the music it is playing which IMHO is just what is wanted - unfortunately it does come at a very steep price financially speaking.
Thanks rongon!
Thanks for getting me back in the groove
I checked and rechecked the alignment with the V15/DJ, even set it wrong on purpose.
With the "wrong" setting, sound got worse, indeed more bass got away and treble became more harsh.
After reading more about the relationship between resonance frequency, cart weight, effective mass and compliance, I concluded that this arm/headshell combo (stock 1200MK2) was too heavy for this cartridge.
But then I remembered that sound was perfect on my Thorens TD160/TP16, and the TP16 is said to have an effective mass of 16.5g (if the info on the internet is correct). So the arm is actually too light!
So, Technics SL1200MK2 arm, 12g effective mass, TP16 mk1, 16.5g effective mass.
That's 4.5g difference... Could I just add this to the headshell/cartridge?
Stock headshell: 7.5g
Ortofon LH-2000: 12g
difference: 4.5g
I looked into those, DL-110 and DL-160, but I don't know what to think about the output.
Too high for an MC input and a tad low for an MM input. They do have a nice pricetag for an MC.
Did you measure te resonance frequency of the DL-110/SL1200 combo? Too bad Denon doesn't use
the standard when it comes to measuring compliance...
(maybe I have to find out myself, the DL-110 is indeed a tempting suggestion )
Thanks for getting me back in the groove
I checked and rechecked the alignment with the V15/DJ, even set it wrong on purpose.
With the "wrong" setting, sound got worse, indeed more bass got away and treble became more harsh.
After reading more about the relationship between resonance frequency, cart weight, effective mass and compliance, I concluded that this arm/headshell combo (stock 1200MK2) was too heavy for this cartridge.
But then I remembered that sound was perfect on my Thorens TD160/TP16, and the TP16 is said to have an effective mass of 16.5g (if the info on the internet is correct). So the arm is actually too light!
So, Technics SL1200MK2 arm, 12g effective mass, TP16 mk1, 16.5g effective mass.
That's 4.5g difference... Could I just add this to the headshell/cartridge?
Stock headshell: 7.5g
Ortofon LH-2000: 12g
difference: 4.5g
I looked into those, DL-110 and DL-160, but I don't know what to think about the output.
Too high for an MC input and a tad low for an MM input. They do have a nice pricetag for an MC.
Did you measure te resonance frequency of the DL-110/SL1200 combo? Too bad Denon doesn't use
the standard when it comes to measuring compliance...
(maybe I have to find out myself, the DL-110 is indeed a tempting suggestion
)
Never said so, but it's the only one I currently have...And I like to get the best out of it.
Massing up the stock arm for cartridges like the DL-103 family is fairly common, so no reason not to try it for other cartridges. The stock C-weight will probably not be enough depending on cartridge weight and added head-shell weight. You'll need to buy/make an auxiliary c-weight. Check out Pat's site:
Technics SL-1200 mods
jeff
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