Hi,
while searching for a new project starting in October/November this year I found the Frugal Horn Speakers. I've read a lot about those during the last 2 weeks, but at the moment I can't decide which one would suit me best (to my needs). I have not heard/built a horn speaker yet (just transmissionline, BR, CB) but from what I have read so far during the last 2 weeks I think a medium sized horn could fit perfectly.
So what do I want? What must the new speaker do good? I'll try to explain:
- good dynamic range
- no ultra deep bass (50-60hz are enough for me)
- a clean sound with app. 90-95db (can't hear louder since I live in an apartment)
- while listening at moderate volumes it should also sound great (nothing must be absent)
- the new speakers should do well especially with rock/metal music --> fun!, but also other stuff shouldn't sound cra**y
My room is approx. 25m² large, the speakers would stand 2m apart, main listening position between 2-3m
So my questions to some experienced horn speaker owners (maybe even some Frugal horns)
- could they suit my needs?
- would they "fit" into my room? ("Sachiko" is to big, I already figured that out^^)
Right now I tend to the "Chang" (Fostex E207e), the "Hiro" (Fostex E206e) or the "Mikasa" (Fostex E126en).
I hope you guys can give me some help deciding...
Thanks
while searching for a new project starting in October/November this year I found the Frugal Horn Speakers. I've read a lot about those during the last 2 weeks, but at the moment I can't decide which one would suit me best (to my needs). I have not heard/built a horn speaker yet (just transmissionline, BR, CB) but from what I have read so far during the last 2 weeks I think a medium sized horn could fit perfectly.
So what do I want? What must the new speaker do good? I'll try to explain:
- good dynamic range
- no ultra deep bass (50-60hz are enough for me)
- a clean sound with app. 90-95db (can't hear louder since I live in an apartment)
- while listening at moderate volumes it should also sound great (nothing must be absent)
- the new speakers should do well especially with rock/metal music --> fun!, but also other stuff shouldn't sound cra**y
My room is approx. 25m² large, the speakers would stand 2m apart, main listening position between 2-3m
So my questions to some experienced horn speaker owners (maybe even some Frugal horns)
- could they suit my needs?
- would they "fit" into my room? ("Sachiko" is to big, I already figured that out^^)
Right now I tend to the "Chang" (Fostex E207e), the "Hiro" (Fostex E206e) or the "Mikasa" (Fostex E126en).
I hope you guys can give me some help deciding...
Thanks
Hi YangMimpi, in my extremely limited experience:
I would not expect a single-driver speaker to do metal. It might do some (less demanding) rock. If you want to use a fullranger, and do rock/metal, you might consider using it from 200hz up, mated to a woofer.
YangMimpi:
Mr Bond speaks the truth, and there would be more than a few ways to achieve serviceable results; in a room your size the total footprint you can accommodate for the enclosures would be a big factor.
One very popular approach at the moment that costs very little in terms of construction materials would be a small OB - but the required space behind and to either side of the panel could be an issue.
Another would be something like a member of the Half Chang Family (personally, I've build a couple of pairs of Brynn with great results), with a small powered woofer per side, actively XO'd between 120-250. With a proper HP to the wideband part of the system, you can benefit from substantial increase in overall SPL, dynamic range, and reduced distortion in mids to HF range,
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Thanks guys for this first feedback...
Obviously, the Sachiko as well as the Hiro seem to big for my room. I just measured around some more... the maximum listening position would be 3 meters from the speakers (going further back I would end up in the kitchen)
The Maximum footprint for each cabinet shouldn't exceed (30 (width x 60 depth) cm wenn placed directly in fornt of the wall (an estimated depth of 40cm would result in an 20cm space to the backwalls. A couple of centimeters more or less are no obstacle.
Maybe I should explain why I wrote "espacially for metal". I'm still very happy with the Needles - I really like their tonality, also while playing metal (I do NOT listen very loud at all). What I wanted to achieve with the new speakers is: more "in your face" (more dynamic) but still a quite linear reproduction from 60 hz upwards. I little dominance of the mids is no problem at all for me, since I like that. I know all horns go well louder than the Needles, but I think I'll never listen to them louder than 90db. So max volume and frequencies below 60hz are not important to me.
With that additional information given - any further suggestions from you?
PS: Of course the Hiro made for the 166,167,168 driver and not for the 206e ... it was quite late last night when I wrote that
Obviously, the Sachiko as well as the Hiro seem to big for my room. I just measured around some more... the maximum listening position would be 3 meters from the speakers (going further back I would end up in the kitchen
)The Maximum footprint for each cabinet shouldn't exceed (30 (width x 60 depth) cm wenn placed directly in fornt of the wall (an estimated depth of 40cm would result in an 20cm space to the backwalls. A couple of centimeters more or less are no obstacle.
Maybe I should explain why I wrote "espacially for metal". I'm still very happy with the Needles - I really like their tonality, also while playing metal (I do NOT listen very loud at all). What I wanted to achieve with the new speakers is: more "in your face" (more dynamic) but still a quite linear reproduction from 60 hz upwards. I little dominance of the mids is no problem at all for me, since I like that. I know all horns go well louder than the Needles, but I think I'll never listen to them louder than 90db. So max volume and frequencies below 60hz are not important to me.
With that additional information given - any further suggestions from you?
PS: Of course the Hiro made for the 166,167,168 driver and not for the 206e ... it was quite late last night when I wrote that
I just took a closer look at the suggested Brynn. Kind of like that speaker, too... the only thing I worry about is the height of the speaker itself... it's about 62cm, with spikes/stands 65mx... thats about 25-30cm lower than my ears at listening position.
Must I be worried about Sweetspot or "listening off-the axis" problems?
Must I be worried about Sweetspot or "listening off-the axis" problems?
Brynn limits you to finding some FE127e (i still have FE127eN available), but coming up with similar for EL70 & CHR70 based on Mar-Kel, and Mar-Ken is something Scott & i have touched on.
We had no issues with the height of Brynn (i have a set here), but some tilt-back pretty much cures any issues.
dave
High damping factor = anything over 10.
Some speakers, in particular most of the Fostex based FHs, prefer an amplifier with low damping factor (<1 to 4 is good), most often delivered by a tube amplifier (SE in particular with 2-10W). The Mark Audio drivers in the 2 series mentioned are much more amplifier tolerant at the expense of needing more power (>10 watts recommended).
dave
Some speakers, in particular most of the Fostex based FHs, prefer an amplifier with low damping factor (<1 to 4 is good), most often delivered by a tube amplifier (SE in particular with 2-10W). The Mark Audio drivers in the 2 series mentioned are much more amplifier tolerant at the expense of needing more power (>10 watts recommended).
dave
As Dave pointed out, I've built all of these designs and you really can't go wrong with any of them. He and Scott did a wonderful job with the designs and it really shows because they are all fantastic performers.
In fact, wondering what the Lotus^2 would sound like with the new version of the CHR-70's that we just received. I'm betting top end detail has improved even more.
alright... I knew the basics, but not the Fostex characteristics - well, something learned
About the Lotus V2: is the side speaker supposed to be "looking" in between the speakers or to the outside? Doesn't that effect the "stage" in a bad way - because that's my experience with any drivers applied to the sides of any cabinet?
About the Lotus V2: is the side speaker supposed to be "looking" in between the speakers or to the outside? Doesn't that effect the "stage" in a bad way - because that's my experience with any drivers applied to the sides of any cabinet?
What you want is a pair of Betsy-Ks.
Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
They "do metal" and everything else.
Great support and very knowledgeable people here are working with it.
It's very easy to work with because it doesn't need a sub, helper tweeter or exotic cabinet to get it to perform well.
Wild Burro Audio Labs - Fullrange Speakers - The Betsy & Betsy-K Drivers
They "do metal" and everything else.
Great support and very knowledgeable people here are working with it.
It's very easy to work with because it doesn't need a sub, helper tweeter or exotic cabinet to get it to perform well.
Attachments
Similar configurations have been used either way (i.e facing out or in) - Cal Weldon could relate his experience with Calhouns (CSS FR/WR125).
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