Here are some rough in shots that are just that -rough-. 2 things i liked.
the quarter round when glued and brad-nailed was like a weld job. These babys are like a brick once they are built up. Note the use of high voltage <HV> tape at the contact point of the drivers. i used 2 laps and the drivers just molded into it. Nice!
the quarter round when glued and brad-nailed was like a weld job. These babys are like a brick once they are built up. Note the use of high voltage <HV> tape at the contact point of the drivers. i used 2 laps and the drivers just molded into it. Nice!
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All for today... more tomorrow. Thanks for the kindness. More thanks for the questions.
All i did was follow instructions and learn from mistakes. I can tell what i did. The gurus here love the "why" questions. Truly i made choices for form over function. I look at them more than i hear them.
All i did was follow instructions and learn from mistakes. I can tell what i did. The gurus here love the "why" questions. Truly i made choices for form over function. I look at them more than i hear them.
These bases SUCK! so back to the old biscuit joiner. I have a base in my mind... Just take it to form.
The first is the base detail, followed by a general base closeup, lastly a full shot of the left speaker. This will end the short thor (from me) photo shootout. Thank you for not flaming me for overloading the hd. For any who wish, I have tons more i will share via PM.
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Has anyone compared Jimangie's original and most recent crossover designs? How does one sound compared to the other. I know people liked Jim's original and thought it was a great improvement over the original thor design. Looks like the most recent revision pushed the crossover point up a little and rolls off the woofer more gently, but may not suppress the woofer resonance at around 5000 hz as much.
2Sooners,
Hey, Are those kids still climbing on the couch? Where's the dogs suppose to lay down?
Here is a link to Christian's board build. He has a new board that is being manufactured now which is even better because it's wider between Mosfets.
http://viller.org/audio/2009jan_gbf5/gbf5_guide.pdf
Look here for a Long thread about Cviller (Christian) F5:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/134554-gb-f5-pcb-107.html
And here for his Group Buy........go with the Version 2.
GB order page for cviller
You can pick up transformers on sale (discount for DIYaudio members) from here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/121228-f5-power-amplifier-444.html#post1874681
or from Ebay, same one, same vendor.
and most of the parts from Jackinnj's website TechDiy. :
Tech DIY Company Store
There may be another group buy of Conrad heatsinks going on, I dunno, or pick up a set on FleaBay.
OK that should get you started.
Ron
Hey, Are those kids still climbing on the couch? Where's the dogs suppose to lay down?
Here is a link to Christian's board build. He has a new board that is being manufactured now which is even better because it's wider between Mosfets.
http://viller.org/audio/2009jan_gbf5/gbf5_guide.pdf
Look here for a Long thread about Cviller (Christian) F5:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/134554-gb-f5-pcb-107.html
And here for his Group Buy........go with the Version 2.
GB order page for cviller
You can pick up transformers on sale (discount for DIYaudio members) from here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/121228-f5-power-amplifier-444.html#post1874681
or from Ebay, same one, same vendor.
and most of the parts from Jackinnj's website TechDiy. :
Tech DIY Company Store
There may be another group buy of Conrad heatsinks going on, I dunno, or pick up a set on FleaBay.
OK that should get you started.
Ron
Crossover again
I posted this on the other forum but thought I would put it here too as I don't know who is monitoring what. Apologies for the duplication.
I just built Jim's LR4 crossover and have been comparing it to the original Thor crossover. It is a very different sound. The original had thin bass and a harshness in the 4-5000 hz region. However, it was very clear and articulate. The new crossover seems to decrease the sensitivity of the speaker quite a bit. It cures the harshness and there is subjectively more bass. However, the bass now seems bloated and the clarity and articulation of the original is missing. It seems to fix the problems with the original but goes too far the other direction and is really muffled.
I could use some tuning advice. I have some slight differences in component values from what Jim specified. Instead of a 4 ohm resistor I am using a 3.9. and instead of a 2.5 ohm resistor I am using a 2.7. Also for the .7 inductor I have a .68.
Suggestions? Is there an easy way to test whether I have everything wired up right?
I posted this on the other forum but thought I would put it here too as I don't know who is monitoring what. Apologies for the duplication.
I just built Jim's LR4 crossover and have been comparing it to the original Thor crossover. It is a very different sound. The original had thin bass and a harshness in the 4-5000 hz region. However, it was very clear and articulate. The new crossover seems to decrease the sensitivity of the speaker quite a bit. It cures the harshness and there is subjectively more bass. However, the bass now seems bloated and the clarity and articulation of the original is missing. It seems to fix the problems with the original but goes too far the other direction and is really muffled.
I could use some tuning advice. I have some slight differences in component values from what Jim specified. Instead of a 4 ohm resistor I am using a 3.9. and instead of a 2.5 ohm resistor I am using a 2.7. Also for the .7 inductor I have a .68.
Suggestions? Is there an easy way to test whether I have everything wired up right?
JC,
I too noted the same transformations with Jim's Xover. At first I hated it! If you look on that thread you'll see what I did to change / voice my crossovers. I am VERY happy with the new sound, it is very balanced and clean and crisp. THE only dissapointment I have is the loss of efficiency...ie: lower Dbs.
Your resistors are just fine, what gauge are your inductors? (hint) different value capacitors on the tweeter circuit will change the sound to your liking.
Ron
PS. How close to the rear wall are your speakers??? side wall?
I too noted the same transformations with Jim's Xover. At first I hated it! If you look on that thread you'll see what I did to change / voice my crossovers. I am VERY happy with the new sound, it is very balanced and clean and crisp. THE only dissapointment I have is the loss of efficiency...ie: lower Dbs.
Your resistors are just fine, what gauge are your inductors? (hint) different value capacitors on the tweeter circuit will change the sound to your liking.
Ron
PS. How close to the rear wall are your speakers??? side wall?
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Crossovers again
Thanks Ron. I thought you had built the earlier version of Jim's crossover. I built the newer one based on his comments that he thought it was better. The tweaks you did in the tweater circuit of the earlier version do not translate directly to the newer version of the crossover.
Any advice from anyone who built the new version would also be appreciated.
The two large inductors in the woofer circuit are foil 14 g as specified in the schematic. The other two are also as specified in the schematic.
Thanks Ron. I thought you had built the earlier version of Jim's crossover. I built the newer one based on his comments that he thought it was better. The tweaks you did in the tweater circuit of the earlier version do not translate directly to the newer version of the crossover.
Any advice from anyone who built the new version would also be appreciated.
The two large inductors in the woofer circuit are foil 14 g as specified in the schematic. The other two are also as specified in the schematic.
JC,
How old are the drivers you're using? Mine are from about 2006 with the rubber boot. I have no idea how the drivers have changed over the years although Zaph has mentioned that the breakup of the W18 has drifted.
Also, as Ron mentioned, how close to the back wall are they set up? The crossover implements close to a full baffle step so if you're getting reinforcement from the walls, it will sound bass heavy. Try plugging up the port (or play with the stuffing amount) of the TL and see how that effects the bass. I run mine sealed and there is no bass bloat whatsoever. I even run with a 12 AWG 1.2 mH inductor which slightly increases the relative bass level.
If you want more midrange presence, raise the 5.7uF cap to 6.2 or even 6.8 uF. You can also reduce the 2.5 Ohm resistor in parallel with the 0.7 mH inductor to reduce it's influence on the baffle step. You could try 2.2 or even 2 Ohm. Finally, you can reduce the 4 Ohm resistor slightly more to raise the treble level (if you wish). These mods have minimal impact on the driver integration.
Good luck,
Jim
How old are the drivers you're using? Mine are from about 2006 with the rubber boot. I have no idea how the drivers have changed over the years although Zaph has mentioned that the breakup of the W18 has drifted.
Also, as Ron mentioned, how close to the back wall are they set up? The crossover implements close to a full baffle step so if you're getting reinforcement from the walls, it will sound bass heavy. Try plugging up the port (or play with the stuffing amount) of the TL and see how that effects the bass. I run mine sealed and there is no bass bloat whatsoever. I even run with a 12 AWG 1.2 mH inductor which slightly increases the relative bass level.
If you want more midrange presence, raise the 5.7uF cap to 6.2 or even 6.8 uF. You can also reduce the 2.5 Ohm resistor in parallel with the 0.7 mH inductor to reduce it's influence on the baffle step. You could try 2.2 or even 2 Ohm. Finally, you can reduce the 4 Ohm resistor slightly more to raise the treble level (if you wish). These mods have minimal impact on the driver integration.
Good luck,
Jim
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Dave,
Please, no offense, but I am confused. In the original documentation the ODIN/THOR was attributed to Murray Zeligman. These schematics are quite different from the one posted by Seas. So it now more correctly not a THOR, but your take on these drivers? I see these drivers are being used by Snell in a design by DeAppolitto. I would love to see his crossover.
I have been thinking about building a set for some time, but it is a lot of bucks for never having heard them. Also looking at the design with the smaller mids, FROY. My other choice is something similar using ScanSpeak. I am concerned with all of these being too bright for my tastes. Not the speakers fault, but I listen to a lot of big-band and the recordings are so badly done that the horns can really grate on you. 7KL range.
Hm. I used the schematic in post #6 on this thread, not sure if that's the one you are discussing. I'm finding exactly the opposite- not as much bass as I'd like and a bit too bright. My listening environment is pretty bad though, speakers against the back wall, concrete floor and a 40wpc amp that is probably not delivering enough juice. I haven't tweaked anything yet, going to wait until I make some improvements to the room and build some bigger amps.
Tvrgeek, despite these little things, the speakers themselves are incredible. Several folks here have contributed mods to the original design that yield much better results- notably box design and crossovers. The staging and detail is amazing, and a bit of crossover tweaking to your taste is all that's needed to make these world class.
Tvrgeek, despite these little things, the speakers themselves are incredible. Several folks here have contributed mods to the original design that yield much better results- notably box design and crossovers. The staging and detail is amazing, and a bit of crossover tweaking to your taste is all that's needed to make these world class.
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