... except when i try moving them around. lol.
actually had thought of using a finger joint router bit and run two 3' lengths of bb thru the router table. Freud Finger Joint Bit - Rockler Woodworking Tools i reasoned the innards closer to the driver are closer together and will help support the two half's. it's allot of work and don't know if this is a good or bad idea?
the alternative because the two sides aren't as important as the rest i may just use the big box ply wood for the sides. if i see a handful of voids on the cut to size sides i won't use it. some of the maple ply 4x8's at home depot didn't have any voids and one or two birch multi ply 4x8's at one of several lowes stores only had one or two pin head size voids contrast to the chinese birch ply at home depot which has many small voids. i can't see what's inside and hope i don't regret it.
Using the Pythagorean Theorem to make 5'x5' BB work?
I think it could work using 5x5 sheets cut diagonally, probably with only 4 to 4.5 sheets of BB. There will be a small 45deg angle void on the top and bottom rear corners of each side, however, this could be easily spliced without significant impact to the structural integrity of the box IMHO. One could even add some decorative accents to mask these splices.
By my calculations you get just over 84" cutting a 5x5 from corner to corner. It would take 3 of the 4 sheets to be cut on 45's, the last could be cut on all 90's. There is approximately 6 ft of cut-off inherent in the use of three 4x8 sheets making the total required sqft about 90. There are of course 100 sqft in four sheets of BB 5x5 thus giving an average of 2.5 sqft per sheet allowable for cut-off. I will put pen to paper in the next day or so to try and create a sheet-cut plan for the 5x5 using angular cuts. If I can figure this out is there any interest in me taking it to the next level and producing a CAD drawing to post here?
Jeff
I think it could work using 5x5 sheets cut diagonally, probably with only 4 to 4.5 sheets of BB. There will be a small 45deg angle void on the top and bottom rear corners of each side, however, this could be easily spliced without significant impact to the structural integrity of the box IMHO. One could even add some decorative accents to mask these splices.
By my calculations you get just over 84" cutting a 5x5 from corner to corner. It would take 3 of the 4 sheets to be cut on 45's, the last could be cut on all 90's. There is approximately 6 ft of cut-off inherent in the use of three 4x8 sheets making the total required sqft about 90. There are of course 100 sqft in four sheets of BB 5x5 thus giving an average of 2.5 sqft per sheet allowable for cut-off. I will put pen to paper in the next day or so to try and create a sheet-cut plan for the 5x5 using angular cuts. If I can figure this out is there any interest in me taking it to the next level and producing a CAD drawing to post here?
Jeff
I've gotten alot out of this thread about plywood and have been wondering how to get the 6 foot sides from 5x5 sheets.
I'll be out hitting a few lumber yards to see what type and size BB or "apple" type plywood I can get.
WX is perfect in the afternoons to be out riding around, even in the holiday traffic.
Since I live in Tucson, I not only have access to a few lumber yards, but also can ride my mc year round. A few years ago, I looked at how many times I drove my car in relation to just the annual insurance, and took my car off the road.
Picking up sheets of plywood will involve renting something to transport them in--but its cheaper than owning a vehicle to xport them in.
Bob
I'll be out hitting a few lumber yards to see what type and size BB or "apple" type plywood I can get.
WX is perfect in the afternoons to be out riding around, even in the holiday traffic.
Since I live in Tucson, I not only have access to a few lumber yards, but also can ride my mc year round. A few years ago, I looked at how many times I drove my car in relation to just the annual insurance, and took my car off the road.
Picking up sheets of plywood will involve renting something to transport them in--but its cheaper than owning a vehicle to xport them in.
Bob
What program did you use to make the above illustration?
Jeff
P.S. yeah, but I though to get at least 2 sides from one sheet and make the cut from corner to corner.
too bad it'll take four sheets to make the sides. apple ply is ridiculously expensive for no other reason then it's a domestic product but i have to wonder how much more factoring in the all of the waste material using 4 5x5's.
thing is states industries doesn't claim their apple ply to be 100% void free so i still may go with my first plan using a non ideal grade for sides.
any reasonable way short a visual and x-ray to test for acceptability?
thing is states industries doesn't claim their apple ply to be 100% void free so i still may go with my first plan using a non ideal grade for sides.
any reasonable way short a visual and x-ray to test for acceptability?
from a structural point of view p-10's one 72"x18" side from a 5'x5' would be better. maybe sonically too, i don't know?
By the time you calculate the huge waste factor with these diagonal cuts, allow for the full length back panels, recutting the off-cuts to usable sizes for the internal fold panels, time/materials required for jigs, etc., how much will you really save over "splurging" on the 2 4x8 sheets of Apple or Europly?
If I ever get around to building a pair of any of Scott's over 60" tall designs, I would either simply spend the money on the 4x8 sheets (you'd need 2 to include the back panels ), or use 5x5's and overlap 2 layers of material for the outside panels. I'm thinking 15mm & 9mm - 15 for the first would be thick enough that you could join biscuits or full length spline - with careful handling, the joint would be plenty strong enough for initial assembly - and cold press the second layer with overlapped joints after the shell is glued up. This would afford the opportunity to get jiggy with your brad nailing gun on the first layer, and hide it with the second.
One could even get very "Fine Woodworking" about it and make stile & rail/ panel construction an aesthetic feature. Using solids of different densities than the plywood might well help to break up outside panel resonances.
Gee, I dunno, that last part sounds like a lot of work....
edit:
Clarify, IIRC from a preliminary cut list I did a while ago to calculate take-off for this size enclosure, the 2 4x8 sheets would yield all 4 sides and 2 back panels, but not all the material for the internal fold panels, and this is not an area to scrimp on MDF or PB. You'd need part of a third 4x8 or 5x5 . The net break-out yield would depend on which driver, as the lengths of all the parts are the same, but not the widths.
If I ever get around to building a pair of any of Scott's over 60" tall designs, I would either simply spend the money on the 4x8 sheets (you'd need 2 to include the back panels ), or use 5x5's and overlap 2 layers of material for the outside panels. I'm thinking 15mm & 9mm - 15 for the first would be thick enough that you could join biscuits or full length spline - with careful handling, the joint would be plenty strong enough for initial assembly - and cold press the second layer with overlapped joints after the shell is glued up. This would afford the opportunity to get jiggy with your brad nailing gun on the first layer, and hide it with the second.
One could even get very "Fine Woodworking" about it and make stile & rail/ panel construction an aesthetic feature. Using solids of different densities than the plywood might well help to break up outside panel resonances.
Gee, I dunno, that last part sounds like a lot of work....
edit:
Clarify, IIRC from a preliminary cut list I did a while ago to calculate take-off for this size enclosure, the 2 4x8 sheets would yield all 4 sides and 2 back panels, but not all the material for the internal fold panels, and this is not an area to scrimp on MDF or PB. You'd need part of a third 4x8 or 5x5 . The net break-out yield would depend on which driver, as the lengths of all the parts are the same, but not the widths.
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Jeff,
I use Vectorworks (the Mac version, Windows UI ruins the Win version) for all my 2D CAD work.
dave
I use Vectorworks (the Mac version, Windows UI ruins the Win version) for all my 2D CAD work.
dave
Does life become too complicated by splitting the sides into three pieces, one matching the length of the baffle, and two mirror images for the top and bottom opening?
Split the back also into three pieces, E to E, and then two mirror images from E to the top and E to the bottom. Or, two pieces joined where the Vee shaped deflector is?
I don't do any wood working, so I don't know if it creates problem trying to join pieces on a 3/4 wide edge of the internal braces-baffles?
Strengthen the seems with strips of decorative wood on the outside?
Bob
Split the back also into three pieces, E to E, and then two mirror images from E to the top and E to the bottom. Or, two pieces joined where the Vee shaped deflector is?
I don't do any wood working, so I don't know if it creates problem trying to join pieces on a 3/4 wide edge of the internal braces-baffles?
Strengthen the seems with strips of decorative wood on the outside?
Bob
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Bob,
My thoughts exactly on the decorative work on the outside. I also like the idea of splitting it into 3 pieces. I would think an external piece that overlaps about 6" on each section would be more than enough to provide the strength needed to hold it together. I would design these external pieces to be decorative and possibly add a few other pieces that are non-structural to create some sort of good looking pattern.
I am wondering how one can glue 2 thicknesses together to create a single thickness and assure there are no voids. What type of glue would best be used to do this? Just a good quality white wood glue?
Thanks,
Jeff
My thoughts exactly on the decorative work on the outside. I also like the idea of splitting it into 3 pieces. I would think an external piece that overlaps about 6" on each section would be more than enough to provide the strength needed to hold it together. I would design these external pieces to be decorative and possibly add a few other pieces that are non-structural to create some sort of good looking pattern.
I am wondering how one can glue 2 thicknesses together to create a single thickness and assure there are no voids. What type of glue would best be used to do this? Just a good quality white wood glue?
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff, that´s not a problem - just a lot of work.
You need equal pressure everywhere, so one thick sheet of wood (kitchen worktop is fine, you can get leftovers from Home Market or so) above and one below.
Clamps. More clamps than you´ll ever own. Two lengths of hardwood (2"x2" is OK), two threaded rods, four nuts and washers - the equal of half a dozen clamps that won´t reach to the middle anyway.
Nails. The smallest and thinnest. Bang a few of them into one sheet and nip them off so just 1mm is left standing out. That will stop the sheets from sliding every which way when you apply pressure.
Normal white glue. NO fastbonding stuff, you´ll never be quick enough. You can apply it with one of the roller thingies you use for painting. Thin the glue with a bit of water if necessary.
Or
Pay a carpenter who has a decent veneer press, leave the headache to him and have a beer yourself.
Pit
You need equal pressure everywhere, so one thick sheet of wood (kitchen worktop is fine, you can get leftovers from Home Market or so) above and one below.
Clamps. More clamps than you´ll ever own. Two lengths of hardwood (2"x2" is OK), two threaded rods, four nuts and washers - the equal of half a dozen clamps that won´t reach to the middle anyway.
Nails. The smallest and thinnest. Bang a few of them into one sheet and nip them off so just 1mm is left standing out. That will stop the sheets from sliding every which way when you apply pressure.
Normal white glue. NO fastbonding stuff, you´ll never be quick enough. You can apply it with one of the roller thingies you use for painting. Thin the glue with a bit of water if necessary.
Or
Pay a carpenter who has a decent veneer press, leave the headache to him and have a beer yourself.
Pit
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