Some people say that their Fostex drivers don't sound good until they listen to them for awhile. They claim that they sound good after they get accustomed to listened to them.
In this same line of reasoning, can I buy some cheaper drivers and train my ears/brain to enjoy them just as much as some Fostex FE127E's?
In this same line of reasoning, can I buy some cheaper drivers and train my ears/brain to enjoy them just as much as some Fostex FE127E's?
Lets face it. No home system will match real live music. And I don't consider Rock concerts as live either.
So the best we can achieve at home is something we like listening to.
With cheap systems, the designer aims to avoid anoyances. He does not pretend, (as some exotic sytems do), that his product re-creates the real thing. Most people are used to this and are happy with it.
That does not mean they will not recognise better sound exists- it just may not be important to them. However unless educated, they may not be able to say why its better.
Better systems may well put up with some problems to gain in other areas- it's all a matter on compromise. I personally find whizzer coned speakers tiring, so thats a compromise I cannot accept. So if its a choice between cheap and foster, I may well choose cheap.
So the best we can achieve at home is something we like listening to.
With cheap systems, the designer aims to avoid anoyances. He does not pretend, (as some exotic sytems do), that his product re-creates the real thing. Most people are used to this and are happy with it.
That does not mean they will not recognise better sound exists- it just may not be important to them. However unless educated, they may not be able to say why its better.
Better systems may well put up with some problems to gain in other areas- it's all a matter on compromise. I personally find whizzer coned speakers tiring, so thats a compromise I cannot accept. So if its a choice between cheap and foster, I may well choose cheap.
Many others have had success training themselves to hear differences in cables - based on that I don't think your goal is unreachable!
Training one's ears/brain to enjoy 'particular' loudspeakers (let's not say it's cheap or bad or whatever... )
Hmmm, this makes me think of an old Chinese proverb, a negative one: " Slashing one's feet to fit the shoes " ....
If this is the case, then the topic shouldn't belong here (DIY audio). It belongs to, maybe, meditations, or hypnogenesis...
Hmmm, this makes me think of an old Chinese proverb, a negative one: " Slashing one's feet to fit the shoes " ....
If this is the case, then the topic shouldn't belong here (DIY audio). It belongs to, maybe, meditations, or hypnogenesis...
I disagree. I have found Fostex drivers to improve with time. And not just a small change. I only hear them briefly when I set them up for break-in, then let them run for a couple hundred hours while I'm not around. They still change after that time, but the worst is over. You would have to be seriously hearing impaired not to notice the changes-- I have found it to be that dramatic. Of course, you still may not like them. And in some cases they may require BSC, etc. to get them to where I want them to be.
Cheers, Jim
Well said, but means no offence. Subjectivity and Objectivity are not mutually exclusive in audio. There is a strange mix of both, varying in proportion per situation.
Indeed. Take 2 sets, identical boxes, a couple hundred hours apart (1 set fresh). I also have the opportunity to pull sets from a matched quad.
dave
I'd also like to point out this manufacturers instructions: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/153141-marks-new-alpair-12-a-7.html#post1966327
dave
dave
"training"?
Without getting all new age metaphysically "Gizmo" about how we sense anything, or our preferences are formed, in the final analysis, we are dealing with our individual sensory perception / & tastes
Let's put it this way - regardless of the relative nutritional values, could you "train" yourself to enjoy say brussel sprouts or cauliflower, no matter how they're prepared, vs a baked potato?
My mom is a fine cook, and both the former were offered to me countless times during my formative and adult years, cleverly disguised with all sorts of creamy or savory sauces - but give me the baked potato, butter and freshly cracked black pepper every time.
Without getting all new age metaphysically "Gizmo" about how we sense anything, or our preferences are formed, in the final analysis, we are dealing with our individual sensory perception / & tastes
Let's put it this way - regardless of the relative nutritional values, could you "train" yourself to enjoy say brussel sprouts or cauliflower, no matter how they're prepared, vs a baked potato?
My mom is a fine cook, and both the former were offered to me countless times during my formative and adult years, cleverly disguised with all sorts of creamy or savory sauces - but give me the baked potato, butter and freshly cracked black pepper every time.
Nice picture, having access to all those drivers would definitely enable you to hear the truth.
Although mechanical things (speakers) do run in, there is no reason why they should stop doing so at an optimal performance point.
A speaker designed to not change its performance over time would seem to be a better bet.
cheers.
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aren't most of fostex units already in the affordable league? if you were to buy feastrex or stuff like that than you can easily beat them by using cheap drivers and bring wine or other substances in the system 
(saving on a feastrex fieldcoil allows for falls of wine)
what i really experienced with a pair of audio nirvana, which presents roughness like the fostex, is that hearing and brain certainly get accustomed, it's phisiological, so phisioligical that perhaps it can also be an irreversible process, the way the ears works really can be tought as an equalizer who's bands can be lowered but never taken back...
also having a system that is wonderful on certain kinds of music, you'll tend to hear to those genres more and more, thinking the system is wonderfull more and more...
anyway not only habits change, your ears do change for real in presence of an huge peak at 15kh
regarding cheap drivers, what's not there you'll never hear.
(saving on a feastrex fieldcoil allows for falls of wine)what i really experienced with a pair of audio nirvana, which presents roughness like the fostex, is that hearing and brain certainly get accustomed, it's phisiological, so phisioligical that perhaps it can also be an irreversible process, the way the ears works really can be tought as an equalizer who's bands can be lowered but never taken back...
also having a system that is wonderful on certain kinds of music, you'll tend to hear to those genres more and more, thinking the system is wonderfull more and more...
anyway not only habits change, your ears do change for real in presence of an huge peak at 15kh
regarding cheap drivers, what's not there you'll never hear.
I have never listened Fostex drivers before. I'm used to fullranges and horns, for example my philips 3800, wharfedale ,lowther, altecs, jbl, etc (mostly aged).
I believe this weekend I will be able to finish a Fonken with untreated FE127E. I will post in this topic my first initial impression, what I don't expect to be good since the first 100hrs break-in period will take a while, also the enable stuff. I will try to do an effort (putting back my current philips FR and some horns I have which I like a lot) to don't allow the psyco-whatever to influent my perception.
thanks
Highef
I believe this weekend I will be able to finish a Fonken with untreated FE127E. I will post in this topic my first initial impression, what I don't expect to be good since the first 100hrs break-in period will take a while, also the enable stuff. I will try to do an effort (putting back my current philips FR and some horns I have which I like a lot) to don't allow the psyco-whatever to influent my perception.
thanks
Highef
also having a system that is wonderful on certain kinds of music, you'll tend to hear to those genres more and more, thinking the system is wonderfull more and more...
I've noticed this already with my Fostex 127e's. I just bought Rosanne Cash's cd "The List" which has an Americana genre feel to it and a "Madeleine Peyroux" cd and they will make me want to search out like generes for sure.
I've noticed this already with my Fostex 127e's. I just bought Rosanne Cash's cd "The List" which has an Americana genre feel to it and a "Madeleine Peyroux" cd and they will make me want to search out like generes for sure.
I don't know about other full range drivers besides Fostex. With commercial multi-way speakers I have bought, I am uncertain about significant changes with time. But my experience so far with Fostex (including FE108eSigma, FE206e, FE127e, F120a, and FF85k) is that they do change dramatically with break-in. While I have not heard of anyone making measurements of these drivers as they break-in, I would be stunned if these changes are not easily observed.
There are many areas in this hobby where I can easily understand people taking opposing views on things--e.g. which sounds better, BB plywood or MDF. I can even see the possibility that some folks may not hear any difference.
But this is one area where the change is blatant.
Of course, we are all victims of our own experience!
Cheers, Jim
There are many areas in this hobby where I can easily understand people taking opposing views on things--e.g. which sounds better, BB plywood or MDF. I can even see the possibility that some folks may not hear any difference.
But this is one area where the change is blatant.
Of course, we are all victims of our own experience!
Cheers, Jim
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