Standel History
Hey guys,
I though you all might enjoy my little bit of Standel history. In the mid 80's, I went to work for Barcus Berry, makers of pickups for every instrument imaginable, who were putting together a new company called BBE to make sound processors. I was to be the assistant to a fellow named Bob Crooks, who invented the BBE sound processor. Bob was in his mid 60's at the time, I was in my 20's, and my job was to learn all about the processor, pick his brains, etc. While we worked on the processor product, I learned the history of Standel from Bob through lunchtime stories. He was the founder. Bob Crooks WAS Standel.
Those amps were truly remarkable. Bob was a unique old S.O.B. In the day, he made a huge range of amps, big ones, little ones, all designed for purity and clean sound. The voicing was all done by hand ( Bob Crooks' hand and ear), and was magic, plain and simple. In the course of my two years working with him, I was fortunate to hear a few amps that were brought to Bob for refurbishing. At Barcus Berry, we had an amazing guitar tech and musician named Johnny Davis. Bob would finish up an amp, then Johnny would come in and play before the amp got shipped out. As I remember, Johnny favored L5's and several Gibson Custom Shop fat semi-hollowbodies. The tone was just sublime.
Bob was definitely not a rock and roll guy. Wes Montgomery used his amps exclusively, and I guess that Wes was the paragon of Bob's idea of who was worthy to use his amps. The Beatles not so much. Bob told me that their manager called him as they were getting ready for their first US tour, to see if they could borrow a set of Standel amps. He told them to shove off.
Standel made hundreds and hundreds of amazing tube amps. When RCA came out with their first line of power bipolar transistors, Bob jumped into the new world of Solid State with both feet. Unfortunately, the concept of Safe Operating Area was not well understood quite yet, and the amps failed by the dozens. Bob went out of business in a matter of months, and it made him a bitter old man.
But those amps....oh my. If your re-creations are anywhere close to the original then you have made yourselves a real treasure.
I take my hat off in salute to Bob Crooks up there in Music Heaven. A crotchety old genius.
cheers
Adam Reed
Ashland Oregon
Hey guys,
I though you all might enjoy my little bit of Standel history. In the mid 80's, I went to work for Barcus Berry, makers of pickups for every instrument imaginable, who were putting together a new company called BBE to make sound processors. I was to be the assistant to a fellow named Bob Crooks, who invented the BBE sound processor. Bob was in his mid 60's at the time, I was in my 20's, and my job was to learn all about the processor, pick his brains, etc. While we worked on the processor product, I learned the history of Standel from Bob through lunchtime stories. He was the founder. Bob Crooks WAS Standel.
Those amps were truly remarkable. Bob was a unique old S.O.B. In the day, he made a huge range of amps, big ones, little ones, all designed for purity and clean sound. The voicing was all done by hand ( Bob Crooks' hand and ear), and was magic, plain and simple. In the course of my two years working with him, I was fortunate to hear a few amps that were brought to Bob for refurbishing. At Barcus Berry, we had an amazing guitar tech and musician named Johnny Davis. Bob would finish up an amp, then Johnny would come in and play before the amp got shipped out. As I remember, Johnny favored L5's and several Gibson Custom Shop fat semi-hollowbodies. The tone was just sublime.
Bob was definitely not a rock and roll guy. Wes Montgomery used his amps exclusively, and I guess that Wes was the paragon of Bob's idea of who was worthy to use his amps. The Beatles not so much. Bob told me that their manager called him as they were getting ready for their first US tour, to see if they could borrow a set of Standel amps. He told them to shove off.
Standel made hundreds and hundreds of amazing tube amps. When RCA came out with their first line of power bipolar transistors, Bob jumped into the new world of Solid State with both feet. Unfortunately, the concept of Safe Operating Area was not well understood quite yet, and the amps failed by the dozens. Bob went out of business in a matter of months, and it made him a bitter old man.
But those amps....oh my. If your re-creations are anywhere close to the original then you have made yourselves a real treasure.
I take my hat off in salute to Bob Crooks up there in Music Heaven. A crotchety old genius.
cheers
Adam Reed
Ashland Oregon
kaw-liga,
When I built my 25L15 clone I used a pair of 5W 350 Ohm resistors in parallel to get 175 Ohms at 10 Watts.
Since the amp only puts out about 25 watts the Hammond 1650H rated at 40 watts would do fine. I just happened to have an old Scott hi-fi output transformer from a 35 watt amp that had the proper input impedance of 6600 Ohms.
I built my amp using 1/2 Watt carbon film resistors as I do in all the amps I build and have not had any problems. All of the capacitors are Mallory "Orange Drop" style.
As I stated earlier in one of the postings the JBL D130 speaker is the heart of the Standel 25L15. Without that speaker you can not really ever achieve the 25L15 sound, in my opinion.
Guitar88
When I built my 25L15 clone I used a pair of 5W 350 Ohm resistors in parallel to get 175 Ohms at 10 Watts.
Since the amp only puts out about 25 watts the Hammond 1650H rated at 40 watts would do fine. I just happened to have an old Scott hi-fi output transformer from a 35 watt amp that had the proper input impedance of 6600 Ohms.
I built my amp using 1/2 Watt carbon film resistors as I do in all the amps I build and have not had any problems. All of the capacitors are Mallory "Orange Drop" style.
As I stated earlier in one of the postings the JBL D130 speaker is the heart of the Standel 25L15. Without that speaker you can not really ever achieve the 25L15 sound, in my opinion.
Guitar88
guitar88 said:
According to the Data Sheet, and I have 6 of the Hammond 1750H transformers here, they are 20W, and I can tell you they are fairly small. In fact, compared to the transformer in your pictures above nearly 1/2 the physical size.
1750H 6,600 C.T. 8ohm Push-Pull 20W for Fender Deluxe, Deluxe Reverb
These tend to saturate easily even in a 15W tweed deluxe circuit.
i was looking at the hammond 1650h to use as its rated at the 40 watt. the 1750h is too low of a wattage transformer. Also using your advice with the 1 watt carbon film. For the extra couple of bucks it costs why not. also thanks for the part number for that 180 ohm 10 watt resistor, its like you read my mind about ordering from mouser. im looking into the hammond transformers because they are easy for me to get, and i get them near cost.
Standels and EchoSonics
Hello everyone,
I am new to the forums but I have been reading quite a bit since 2004, tweaking my own amps. Perhaps you've seen some posts about my 1954 prototype Fender Bassman SN 0013.
I am interested in building a Standel 25L15 replica (I have a 16Ohms 15" 1954 JBL waiting), as well as a Ray Butts Echosonic replica.
If anyone (Guitar88, MBL, etc) would be able to get the schematics out to me, I would be forever in debt. I understand the importance of keeping this stuff in the groups of the few who understand the priviledge of having these instruments and would fully cooperate to keep their secrecy.
Pleas PM/email me if at all possible, I can even call you anywhere in US/Canada on my dime. I play rockabilly music with my '52 Telecasters only, Carl Perkins / James Burton style, and listen to Carl Perkins and Ricky Nelson records my whole life. I fix old vacuuum tube televisions and radios and I have been getting into guitar amplification (lots of Gerald Weber books and DVDs) for the last 5 years.
Thanks,
Frank
Hello everyone,
I am new to the forums but I have been reading quite a bit since 2004, tweaking my own amps. Perhaps you've seen some posts about my 1954 prototype Fender Bassman SN 0013.
I am interested in building a Standel 25L15 replica (I have a 16Ohms 15" 1954 JBL waiting), as well as a Ray Butts Echosonic replica.
If anyone (Guitar88, MBL, etc) would be able to get the schematics out to me, I would be forever in debt. I understand the importance of keeping this stuff in the groups of the few who understand the priviledge of having these instruments and would fully cooperate to keep their secrecy.
Pleas PM/email me if at all possible, I can even call you anywhere in US/Canada on my dime. I play rockabilly music with my '52 Telecasters only, Carl Perkins / James Burton style, and listen to Carl Perkins and Ricky Nelson records my whole life. I fix old vacuuum tube televisions and radios and I have been getting into guitar amplification (lots of Gerald Weber books and DVDs) for the last 5 years.
Thanks,
Frank
Standel 25L15 schematic
Hello everyone!
Lotsa talk all over the 'Net about Standels and Echosonics!!! NICE!
I guess if someone else can post a schematic of this amp, so can I, right?
Here's one that I'm sure people will recognize. It's freely available online. Just find a link to a schematic called "807_schem.jpg" and change the link to "jp25_schem.jpg" and you can download it. This link is found on many threads I've seen on Standel schematic serches.
PS I REALLY REALLY want a Ray Butts EA-1 Echosonic, AKA 1958-196x Rickenbacker M-30 Ek-O-Sound. PUHLEEZE someone contact me if you have a manual, instructions for any parts of these amps, anything at all. I need one of these, guys..........Please.
Thank you kindly!
Frank
1954 Fender Bassman 5D6 SN 0013
1963 Ampeg Super Echo Twin ET-2-B
1967 Ampeg B-12XT
1953 Gibson GA-30
1968 Vox Berkeley II (tube)
2001 Fender Pro Reverb (1st year reissue)
2 x 1952 FENDER TELECASTER BLACKGUARDS
Hello everyone!
Lotsa talk all over the 'Net about Standels and Echosonics!!! NICE!
I guess if someone else can post a schematic of this amp, so can I, right?
Here's one that I'm sure people will recognize. It's freely available online. Just find a link to a schematic called "807_schem.jpg" and change the link to "jp25_schem.jpg" and you can download it. This link is found on many threads I've seen on Standel schematic serches.
PS I REALLY REALLY want a Ray Butts EA-1 Echosonic, AKA 1958-196x Rickenbacker M-30 Ek-O-Sound. PUHLEEZE someone contact me if you have a manual, instructions for any parts of these amps, anything at all. I need one of these, guys..........Please.
Thank you kindly!
Frank
1954 Fender Bassman 5D6 SN 0013
1963 Ampeg Super Echo Twin ET-2-B
1967 Ampeg B-12XT
1953 Gibson GA-30
1968 Vox Berkeley II (tube)
2001 Fender Pro Reverb (1st year reissue)
2 x 1952 FENDER TELECASTER BLACKGUARDS
The JP25 is Ted Weber's rendition of the Standel 25L15, and doesn't seem to be available yet, even though he publishes the schematic freely. Caution, however - although tube complement is the same, the schematic differ significantly from the original, and I don't know if the layout is similar since it's not published. Not having heard a JP25, I don't know how the sound compares to an original - which I played through briefly when I worked on one - but I understand that you can get similar output from different circuits, so perhaps it would serve as a suitable substitute if you aren't concerned about circuit accuracy. The photo of his cabinet seems to replicate the original, what you can see of it, and the price is very reasonable - I plan to order and build one as soon as they're available!
Bud
Bud
Standel 25L15 Shematic
Hi K9!
And thanks for your post - I completely agree with you on all counts (except for the price of Weber's Standel cabinet - I don't know what the cost is yet, so I can't say yay or nay, but it SURE LOOKS GOOD.)
It is very likely that his JP25 circuit differs from the original Standel 25L15 circuit, but as you say, there is no real way to tell since we don't have a schematic published online anywhere.
HOWEVER, I was able to find a few copies of
art: of the schematic, some with the power section ripped off for some reason. They are dated 1953, and Bob Crooks's name is on it, and they look very old.
When I get home tonite, I will compare the Weber JP25 to the schematics I already have, despite partially incomplete. I will note the differences, if any, and see what kind of effects they may have on the amp itself.
One thing's for sure: Weber's JP25 looks like a reliable, fully functional 807-based circuit, not unlike the Williamson circuit, and both look very very much like a Standel 25L15.
Let's see what our grey matter can come up with. if ANYONE OUT THERE has any resistor values, capacitor values, even output transformer information, bias setting, or any specs of original early-50's Standel 25L15's, please post them so that we may compare to what we have here.
thank you in advance for any and all contributors and followers, and again, hats off to Guitar88, MBL and Lorenz S.
Frank
Hi K9!
And thanks for your post - I completely agree with you on all counts (except for the price of Weber's Standel cabinet - I don't know what the cost is yet, so I can't say yay or nay, but it SURE LOOKS GOOD.)
It is very likely that his JP25 circuit differs from the original Standel 25L15 circuit, but as you say, there is no real way to tell since we don't have a schematic published online anywhere.
HOWEVER, I was able to find a few copies of
art: of the schematic, some with the power section ripped off for some reason. They are dated 1953, and Bob Crooks's name is on it, and they look very old.When I get home tonite, I will compare the Weber JP25 to the schematics I already have, despite partially incomplete. I will note the differences, if any, and see what kind of effects they may have on the amp itself.
One thing's for sure: Weber's JP25 looks like a reliable, fully functional 807-based circuit, not unlike the Williamson circuit, and both look very very much like a Standel 25L15.
Let's see what our grey matter can come up with. if ANYONE OUT THERE has any resistor values, capacitor values, even output transformer information, bias setting, or any specs of original early-50's Standel 25L15's, please post them so that we may compare to what we have here.
thank you in advance for any and all contributors and followers, and again, hats off to Guitar88, MBL and Lorenz S.
Frank
Standel clones selling for 5 GRAND!!!
Torres Engineering is making their version of a Standel 25L15 (but with 12" speaker, etc), and they're asking a whopping $4500 + all taxes and shipping:
http://www.torresengineering.com/newbroandcoa.html
As well, it looks like my last post with the schematic attachment worked, but the resoltution isn't so good. Here's where I discoevered it (you problably will not find this link anywhere else in the world right now) :
http://www.tedweber.com/schematics/jp25_schem.jpg
Have fun y'all!!!
Frank
Torres Engineering is making their version of a Standel 25L15 (but with 12" speaker, etc), and they're asking a whopping $4500 + all taxes and shipping:
http://www.torresengineering.com/newbroandcoa.html
As well, it looks like my last post with the schematic attachment worked, but the resoltution isn't so good. Here's where I discoevered it (you problably will not find this link anywhere else in the world right now) :
http://www.tedweber.com/schematics/jp25_schem.jpg
Have fun y'all!!!
Frank
New 25L15 Shematic
Also check out his new revised version:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/jp25_schem.jpg
Also check out his new revised version:
https://taweber.powweb.com/store/jp25_schem.jpg
ECHOSONIC SCHEMATIC AND INSTRUCTIONS
Hey all!!
I'm back - and this time I have some goodies for everyone from my latest online treks in the Quest For Tone.
MANY THANKS TO MY NEW FRIEND FROM FINLAND Teemuk FOR HELPING US OUT ON THIS ONE!!
The famous April 1953 Ray Butts Echosonic model EA-1 amplifier. I have a small diagram of it, a basic schematic with (unfortunately) no values (CAN ANYONE FILL THEM IN AND POST THEM PUHLEEZZ!).
I also have 3 pages of details instructions on how the tape echo functions as part of the amplifier - a very good read. I hae never seen these posted anywhere in online forums before until now!!
Let's all get some information together and maybe we can have a working schematic for all of us to enjoy.
Thank you,
Frank
Hey all!!
I'm back - and this time I have some goodies for everyone from my latest online treks in the Quest For Tone.
MANY THANKS TO MY NEW FRIEND FROM FINLAND Teemuk FOR HELPING US OUT ON THIS ONE!!
The famous April 1953 Ray Butts Echosonic model EA-1 amplifier. I have a small diagram of it, a basic schematic with (unfortunately) no values (CAN ANYONE FILL THEM IN AND POST THEM PUHLEEZZ!).
I also have 3 pages of details instructions on how the tape echo functions as part of the amplifier - a very good read. I hae never seen these posted anywhere in online forums before until now!!
Let's all get some information together and maybe we can have a working schematic for all of us to enjoy.
Thank you,
Frank
Attachments
ECHOSONIC INSTRUCTIONS 1
I had to convert the Patent PDF to JPG or MS Word document to post but everything is just too big to fit in the measily 102Kb limit of this forum.
Please find the document in its entirety here:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2804499.html
NB: You WILL have to quickly create a free login account with a valid email address to download this PDF (sorry for the hassle, guys...).
Thank you,
Frank
I had to convert the Patent PDF to JPG or MS Word document to post but everything is just too big to fit in the measily 102Kb limit of this forum.
Please find the document in its entirety here:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2804499.html
NB: You WILL have to quickly create a free login account with a valid email address to download this PDF (sorry for the hassle, guys...).
Thank you,
Frank
yeah the values for the echo sonic on there would be great. i have some spare tube echo parts here for my ecco fonic. the hard parts to find would be the bias oscillator coil, but i have read about guys winding their own. JRF magnetics has NOS tape heads, and terrys rubbber rollers could prob make a pinch roller for it.
Think i may have my standel style amp using guitar88's schematic done next week, i hope to post some pics then.
Think i may have my standel style amp using guitar88's schematic done next week, i hope to post some pics then.
Done my amp..well almost
Here is a few pics of my amp, i got the front logo i still want to make, but it is done otherwise. i used the schematic that guitar88 provided. I like the standel appearance and decided to go with it. it sounds great with guitar and steel.
Here is a few pics of my amp, i got the front logo i still want to make, but it is done otherwise. i used the schematic that guitar88 provided. I like the standel appearance and decided to go with it. it sounds great with guitar and steel.
