Greetings Bigun,
The schedule as you call it would mean that at this point the train hasn't left the station.
The goal is to show the flow of work from materials acquisition--
including those generic guides Planet10 describes above
... then preparation which are things like practice using the pens,
finding a lazy susan to spin the speaks around and any other things to prevent gotchas before...
.... treatment of the target FE127e or other speaker for final use
and even cleanup. At this point I don't know if pen nibs need any more than a swish in water or if their parts have to be cleaned.
Since this is all pretty involved, I may go the library and peruse a book on calligraphy. I prefer books. Flipping through threads and websites gives me a literal headache.
I hope you stay with us and that we all have success.
The schedule as you call it would mean that at this point the train hasn't left the station.
The goal is to show the flow of work from materials acquisition--
including those generic guides Planet10 describes above
... then preparation which are things like practice using the pens,
finding a lazy susan to spin the speaks around and any other things to prevent gotchas before...
.... treatment of the target FE127e or other speaker for final use
and even cleanup. At this point I don't know if pen nibs need any more than a swish in water or if their parts have to be cleaned.
Since this is all pretty involved, I may go the library and peruse a book on calligraphy. I prefer books. Flipping through threads and websites gives me a literal headache.
I hope you stay with us and that we all have success.
loninappleton
Yes, quite a bit to slog through. So;
Step 1. use these url's to view a series of pictures that relate to how a driver , of high complexity, might be thought about, with reference to use of templates. They will make more sense if you roll your mouse over the pictures in the first one, and then click on it for a larger view. The second shows some actual use of the templates provided in the first. Keep in mind that this is a complicated Lowther cone being shown. The principles are the same for your more simple trial cones.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/LowtherPreTreatment?authkey=Gv1sRgCOnx-N6Dz-O8Vg#
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/LowthwerDX4EnABLPatterns#
Step 2. Use this URL to locate you, in the split off non technical thread, at the beginning of the three part tutorial.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1460272#post1460272
Step 3. Having looked at those pictures and read the tutorial you now have a good idea of how the pattern guides work. These blocks do not have to be exactly in the correct place to work properly. As in horse shoes and man kinds second favorite sport, close is good enough. For applying the attached generic patterns to a driver that has not been covered yet, and most have not, do the following.
Guess at how wide the pattern will be on the outside rim of the cone. Do this by noting how wide, in a radial dimension, one side of the pattern closest in diameter to your cones outer dimension is, after you print out the attached generic ring PDF. Make sure that all page resizing choices have been set to none before you print. Use this dimension to measure down the cone face and then determine how wide the cone is at this point, to the same distance down on the opposite side of the cone. A divider, the pivoted item with two stick pins for tips, from an ancient mechanical drawing set is invaluable here.
Now, with this dimension in hand, measure the size of the nearest in size from the two ring sets provided on the printed piece of paper.. Measure that outer ring dimension. Now, in the adobe printing section you can increase or decrease the printed size by %. So decide the percent of change you need, enter it and print the document again. Remeasure the appropriate ring to see how close you came. If it is close, cut it out, using the outer ring as a guide.
Drop it into the cone and eyeball the distance from the ring edge to the cone/surround edge. Does it look like you could fit five individual rings of blocks in the remaining space? Judge the width of a ring block by either looking at the width of the blocks on the outer ring of the template, down in the speaker cone, or measure it if you must. If needed adjust your % of print and reprint to get a pattern guide that fits this five block criteria pretty closely.
Mark a start stop point on the pattern guide and use this to guide your application beginning and end. This is important!
Step 4. The lower ring of blocks should be applied about one ring block width above the template. A space of one ring block width should be allowed for, by eye is good enough, and the second, offset, ring blocks should be applied above the first. This should allow about one ring width from the upper ring of blocks to the cone/surround joint.
Picking a proper width of pen tip is important here. Once you have what you think is an appropriately sized pattern guide, use the outer ring blocks to choose a pen tip width. Make the choice of pen tip smaller in width than the block as the clear flat paint (I know, it looks white, but it is clear when it dries) will spread in width as it dries.
When you have reached this point, follow the tutorials. Your first application will likely look horrible, to you. Do not be concerned it will work anyway.
Let this first attempt dry and then listen to it, compare it with an untreated driver. The outer pattern ring set should have made a noticeable change in quality for the treated driver.
Next session will be for the inner ring set. A much pickier and more difficult looking process, but do not be alarmed, you can accomplish this one also.
Bud
Yes, quite a bit to slog through. So;
Step 1. use these url's to view a series of pictures that relate to how a driver , of high complexity, might be thought about, with reference to use of templates. They will make more sense if you roll your mouse over the pictures in the first one, and then click on it for a larger view. The second shows some actual use of the templates provided in the first. Keep in mind that this is a complicated Lowther cone being shown. The principles are the same for your more simple trial cones.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/LowtherPreTreatment?authkey=Gv1sRgCOnx-N6Dz-O8Vg#
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/LowthwerDX4EnABLPatterns#
Step 2. Use this URL to locate you, in the split off non technical thread, at the beginning of the three part tutorial.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1460272#post1460272
Step 3. Having looked at those pictures and read the tutorial you now have a good idea of how the pattern guides work. These blocks do not have to be exactly in the correct place to work properly. As in horse shoes and man kinds second favorite sport, close is good enough. For applying the attached generic patterns to a driver that has not been covered yet, and most have not, do the following.
Guess at how wide the pattern will be on the outside rim of the cone. Do this by noting how wide, in a radial dimension, one side of the pattern closest in diameter to your cones outer dimension is, after you print out the attached generic ring PDF. Make sure that all page resizing choices have been set to none before you print. Use this dimension to measure down the cone face and then determine how wide the cone is at this point, to the same distance down on the opposite side of the cone. A divider, the pivoted item with two stick pins for tips, from an ancient mechanical drawing set is invaluable here.
Now, with this dimension in hand, measure the size of the nearest in size from the two ring sets provided on the printed piece of paper.. Measure that outer ring dimension. Now, in the adobe printing section you can increase or decrease the printed size by %. So decide the percent of change you need, enter it and print the document again. Remeasure the appropriate ring to see how close you came. If it is close, cut it out, using the outer ring as a guide.
Drop it into the cone and eyeball the distance from the ring edge to the cone/surround edge. Does it look like you could fit five individual rings of blocks in the remaining space? Judge the width of a ring block by either looking at the width of the blocks on the outer ring of the template, down in the speaker cone, or measure it if you must. If needed adjust your % of print and reprint to get a pattern guide that fits this five block criteria pretty closely.
Mark a start stop point on the pattern guide and use this to guide your application beginning and end. This is important!
Step 4. The lower ring of blocks should be applied about one ring block width above the template. A space of one ring block width should be allowed for, by eye is good enough, and the second, offset, ring blocks should be applied above the first. This should allow about one ring width from the upper ring of blocks to the cone/surround joint.
Picking a proper width of pen tip is important here. Once you have what you think is an appropriately sized pattern guide, use the outer ring blocks to choose a pen tip width. Make the choice of pen tip smaller in width than the block as the clear flat paint (I know, it looks white, but it is clear when it dries) will spread in width as it dries.
When you have reached this point, follow the tutorials. Your first application will likely look horrible, to you. Do not be concerned it will work anyway.
Let this first attempt dry and then listen to it, compare it with an untreated driver. The outer pattern ring set should have made a noticeable change in quality for the treated driver.
Next session will be for the inner ring set. A much pickier and more difficult looking process, but do not be alarmed, you can accomplish this one also.
Bud
As a purely aesthetic note, and if not addressed in the volumes already or yet to be typed on the subject, pay particular attention to the orientation of the tri-foil pattern template on FE126 or FE127, as well as the dust cap pattern.
Due to the difference in absorption and optical refractive characteristics of the various fluids used, even with dark tints to the top coats, the pattern will remain visible to some degree after treatment.
At the very least they should face the same direction on all drivers in a set, and I have a personal preference for the 2 "corners" of the "base" to flank the voice coil connections.
Due to the difference in absorption and optical refractive characteristics of the various fluids used, even with dark tints to the top coats, the pattern will remain visible to some degree after treatment.
At the very least they should face the same direction on all drivers in a set, and I have a personal preference for the 2 "corners" of the "base" to flank the voice coil connections.
loninappleton said:
I did my 1st 100 or so drivers without the lazy susan. It found me, i didn't go looking for it. It really helps on the BIG drivers
99% isopropanol is a must have. If my tip is a mess i'll go up and run hot water and use a toothbrush to clean. After i toss it in a batch of alcohol, and if not going to use for a while, wipe down really well and let dry. As most of mine are in more or less continual use, they live in the alcohol.
Q-tips for cleaning up messes are good to have on hand.
dave
chrisb said:
chrisb,
Where is the picture of the trifoil pattern template?
I have just reviewed the Planet 10 links and a lot of that seemed to spin off into non- How- to tangents.
I have seen the circle templates. What I'm looking for is a photo of a trifoil template with the cutouts.
Making a template for the trifoil would consist of using a sharp knife in the way a graphic artist does to make a stencil.
Meantime I am going to use a Q-tip and Damar on my sample to see if I can get the hang of application.
planet10 said:
It's starting to make more sense.
I just started to wonder if I can canabalize one of the cones from
my scrubs to make the template. Those have already been sealed with various test coats of things. The size would be an approximation. Too early to tell on that.
Since I don't own a printer, I'm going to take your generic enable pdf and print it at the library.
The reference to satraps and acolytes is well-taken.
Judst for reference, here are the Fostex Fe 127 posts that have the driver specific patterns embedded.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1224615#post1224615 post 241
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1225189#post1225189 post 247
Here is a direct link to the pictures for treatment of that driver, the first shows the Fe 127, the second refers to the Fe 126. The cone treatment for the two, for EnABL pattern placement, is identical except that the mid cone patterns are only shown on the 126 pattern set and pictures.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex127ETreatment#
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex126Treatment#
Here is the thread aimed at the Fe 126 driver specifically..
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1466489#post1466489
No need to download these for now. May I STRONGLY suggest that you just fool around with the pens and a flat piece of paper, until you have discovered how to make the upside down pen tip a workable proposition. Not difficult to do, but not what you are expecting either.
Bud
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1224615#post1224615 post 241
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1225189#post1225189 post 247
Here is a direct link to the pictures for treatment of that driver, the first shows the Fe 127, the second refers to the Fe 126. The cone treatment for the two, for EnABL pattern placement, is identical except that the mid cone patterns are only shown on the 126 pattern set and pictures.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex127ETreatment#
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex126Treatment#
Here is the thread aimed at the Fe 126 driver specifically..
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1466489#post1466489
No need to download these for now. May I STRONGLY suggest that you just fool around with the pens and a flat piece of paper, until you have discovered how to make the upside down pen tip a workable proposition. Not difficult to do, but not what you are expecting either.
Bud
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
loninappleton said:
Good news. I know that Planet10 has done an excellent job on this topic.
If I can, I will start with weekend with the materials acquisition for the pre-treatment. I'm not sure what my local stores carry yet. If there's some kind of group buy on the pen-nib set that makes sense then I would be read with my cheque book for that.
Lazy Susan - I have to tell you a true story.
A collegue had a customer visit planned at his work place. He asked one of his staff to book a lunch at a local chinese restaurant, the big table with the lazy susan. Well, this member of staff came back and confirmed the booking but that unfortunately there was no susan on staff at the restaurant......
Bigun,
Up at the top there is the list of supplies and also a handy place to get the goods all in one place from Ed LaFontaine in Kentucky.
This is where I got my starter materials. After that the Mod Podge is at the Hobby Lobby in the department with the puzzles. HL also carries Damar Varnish near the supplies for painting with oils.
Any big box craft store is likely to have the last two items. Ed assembles the pen and nibs plus the two finishes for use on this job.
Up at the top there is the list of supplies and also a handy place to get the goods all in one place from Ed LaFontaine in Kentucky.
This is where I got my starter materials. After that the Mod Podge is at the Hobby Lobby in the department with the puzzles. HL also carries Damar Varnish near the supplies for painting with oils.
Any big box craft store is likely to have the last two items. Ed assembles the pen and nibs plus the two finishes for use on this job.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I don't think location is an issue, we have a local art store with lots of stuff inside, it will be a good starting point for me to find something resembling puzzlecoat. I will do the tri-foil pre-treatment first and report back here before I try the next step.
Since I have 5 speakers, I'll do two at first and then I can compare 'before' and 'after' fairly easily.
Question is, when I get to the next step, can I train the kids to draw all those little dashes on my speaker cones....
Since I have 5 speakers, I'll do two at first and then I can compare 'before' and 'after' fairly easily.
Question is, when I get to the next step, can I train the kids to draw all those little dashes on my speaker cones....
Hi Lon, Dave, Bud, and all,
As a total novice, I find myself having to seperate the different parts of the EnABLing system into what appears to be 5 seperate processes.
1.Trifoil pattern (and/or Pretreatment) 2. Cone surface painting(s) 3. Dustcap/Phase plug surface coating(s) 4.EnABL pattern application 5. Final coating(s)
Does this make sense?
From Ed's kit -
Can the Floquil Polyscale #404106 Flat finish (white paint) for the EnABL pattern "dots" be tinted other colours okay?
The Microscale MI-4 Gloss coat that is the clear paint for the cone, dustcap/phaseplug surfaces is also known as "ModgePodge" and "PuzzleCoat? ... and gloss finish preferred?
Are these correct?
"Conformal coat" means smooth, even surface finish?
"Radial" strokes are from centre to outer edge of cone/dustcap brush strokes. "Arc/sweep" are the circular painting strokes.
"Lazy Susan" is rotating flat plate support. The Calligraphy pentips are used with "the 2 tips to surface".
Still unclear -
Before the PolyScale " EnABL dots" are applied, the cone/dustcap has 1, or more, base coats (of the ModgePodge) applied, and after the dots, the finish coats, yes?
- and if the Trifoil pattern (Danmar Varnish) is used, this also has a base coat applied before the pattern, and then the "EnABL dots" are applied directly on top of that, followed by the finishing thinned "ModgePodge" coating(s)?
Trifoil (Danmar Varnish only?) <-> extra "centre cone" ring of dots?
As a total novice, I find myself having to seperate the different parts of the EnABLing system into what appears to be 5 seperate processes.
1.Trifoil pattern (and/or Pretreatment) 2. Cone surface painting(s) 3. Dustcap/Phase plug surface coating(s) 4.EnABL pattern application 5. Final coating(s)
Does this make sense?
From Ed's kit -
Can the Floquil Polyscale #404106 Flat finish (white paint) for the EnABL pattern "dots" be tinted other colours okay?
The Microscale MI-4 Gloss coat that is the clear paint for the cone, dustcap/phaseplug surfaces is also known as "ModgePodge" and "PuzzleCoat? ... and gloss finish preferred?
Are these correct?
"Conformal coat" means smooth, even surface finish?
"Radial" strokes are from centre to outer edge of cone/dustcap brush strokes. "Arc/sweep" are the circular painting strokes.
"Lazy Susan" is rotating flat plate support. The Calligraphy pentips are used with "the 2 tips to surface".
Still unclear -
Before the PolyScale " EnABL dots" are applied, the cone/dustcap has 1, or more, base coats (of the ModgePodge) applied, and after the dots, the finish coats, yes?
- and if the Trifoil pattern (Danmar Varnish) is used, this also has a base coat applied before the pattern, and then the "EnABL dots" are applied directly on top of that, followed by the finishing thinned "ModgePodge" coating(s)?
Trifoil (Danmar Varnish only?) <-> extra "centre cone" ring of dots?
jameshillj said:
Speaking only on the FE126/127
We have two processes, each taking a number of steps:
a/ pretreatment
1/ trifoil (uses damar)
2/ 2 thin coats thinned puzzleoat
b/ EnABL
1/ spots (outer ring (72). dustcap rings (2x72), centre rings (13)
2/ 3 coats 59% gloss (only 1 on the dustcap)
3/ PVA spot on the tip of the dustcap
4/ coat just that with just a small brush of gloss.
5/ add the "stealth" spots -- mid ring (72).
Then there are the non cone mods
dave
The amount of Gloss coat does vary.
Some people don't like the Gloss coat at all, just the spots thank you very much. The Gloss coat does take a little bit of the loose, very light extra information, that might or might not be correctly expressed with just the spots, and turns it into very polite and coherent rendering of space. and the reflections and other tiny sounds that occur in that space.
For this reason I advocate listening to the drivers for a good bit of time , before you apply the Gloss coatings. And, listen for just as long in between coats. If you achieve a level of performance you do not want to leave, stop right there.
If you do apply Gloss coat, three coats seems to be the right number for a wide range of drivers. Certainly the F 126/127 really come alive with that third coating.
Bud
Some people don't like the Gloss coat at all, just the spots thank you very much. The Gloss coat does take a little bit of the loose, very light extra information, that might or might not be correctly expressed with just the spots, and turns it into very polite and coherent rendering of space. and the reflections and other tiny sounds that occur in that space.
For this reason I advocate listening to the drivers for a good bit of time , before you apply the Gloss coatings. And, listen for just as long in between coats. If you achieve a level of performance you do not want to leave, stop right there.
If you do apply Gloss coat, three coats seems to be the right number for a wide range of drivers. Certainly the F 126/127 really come alive with that third coating.
Bud
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