Absolutely Jan!
Incidentally, I still mourn the demise of Linear Audio. Fortunately I subscribed and have a full set, including all the additional special issues. The only thing I built was a fully balanced IO Proteus from V6. Totally insane - sounds stunning.
Oh and of course your Superregs, which I use to power the ASP for my LX521
Craig
Incidentally, I still mourn the demise of Linear Audio. Fortunately I subscribed and have a full set, including all the additional special issues. The only thing I built was a fully balanced IO Proteus from V6. Totally insane - sounds stunning.
Oh and of course your Superregs, which I use to power the ASP for my LX521
Craig
That's not given. If you unplug the source and plug it back in five times you've made 10 changes. You're still back where you started. According to your math this should be sqrt(10) = 3.2x better.
Not all distributions are normal.
You're also making the assumption that each change to the system will change the output of the system. That's not a given. For example, Canare makes the L-4E6S Star Quad cable in a few different versions that differ only by the colour of the PVC jacket. If you change from a cable with black jacket to one with a blue jacket you are making a real change. But I hope we can agree that as long as the cables are the same length and feature the same connectors you have made no change that would impact the output.
Tom
The one thing you're discounting is the subjective measurements done by listeners. If you A/B two options, and your ears tell you the one is better, then there's likely a modicum of truth to that. Yes, bias and the placebo effect will have an impact on the veracity of those perceptions, but they are still measurements all the same.
For example, I've listened to many DACs that measure extremely well, but some sound awful.
That's why I've always appreciated the approach of Benchmark Media. They would fine something that measures well, but they wouldn't like the way it sounded. Then they would search for a test/measurement that could explain the aberration. For more info, see their post, Listening vs. Measuring.
I think we're a long way from having measurements that quantify everything that we can perceive.
For example, I've listened to many DACs that measure extremely well, but some sound awful.
That's why I've always appreciated the approach of Benchmark Media. They would fine something that measures well, but they wouldn't like the way it sounded. Then they would search for a test/measurement that could explain the aberration. For more info, see their post, Listening vs. Measuring.
I think we're a long way from having measurements that quantify everything that we can perceive.
I'm not discounting anyone's personal experience when using the audio gear. But those are experiences not measurements.
Yep. If you perceive a difference then you perceive a difference. Now run the ABX test 100 times blindfolded with no knowledge of what's changing, if anything, and get it right 95 times and you have data. Most of us don't go to those lengths.
Most of us perform sighted trials and we know what's changing. We might still perceive a difference (and I do believe this perception is real!) but we can't discern whether the perceived difference is due to differences in the electronics, differences in the packaging, differences in the price, colour, weight, etc. of the equipment.
I mention these variables: price, colour, weight, packaging (i.e., aesthetic qualities of the enclosures) deliberately. Price, colour, and packaging have all been shown to correlate positively with the listening experience in sighted trials. Olive & Toole did this research at Harman Kardon. Olive & Toole also found that Harman employees preferred the sound quality of Harman equipment in sighted trials but did not show this preference in blind trials.
Weight is one of the few factors that's reliably correlated with perceptions of quality - but only for men - in consumer psychology research.
The 150ish dB dynamic range of the APx555b is more dynamic range than our ears can perceive, so we can certainly quantify what we perceive. But older single-tone tests were too simplistic. Newer tests like the multi-tone tests that I use get a lot closer. It'd be interesting to take another look at transient tests as well.
But you're right. The APx555 can't measure the impact of the aesthetics of a product on your perception of its sound quality. That's what psychological research is for.
I have a lot of respect for Benchmark, by the way. I don't doubt that they plug some gear in and listen every now and then. But I doubt they make significant design changes based on listening trials unless they can also measure a difference. I interpret their blurb on measurements vs perception as a way to appease the subjectivist crowd. I've often thought of writing something similar for my website.
Humans are not rational critters.
Tom
I agree that we're not generally very rational, but I also know that we're still unsolved mysteries.
I also accept that it's best to have as many useful objective measurements as possible, and whenever practical, subjective measures should be done with proper scientific controls.
The problem is that that's arduous and boring for most people. For the majority of us, audio is a fun hobby, not a rigorous experiment. I recognize that for you it's also your livelihood, so your perspective is different that most.
I also accept that it's best to have as many useful objective measurements as possible, and whenever practical, subjective measures should be done with proper scientific controls.
The problem is that that's arduous and boring for most people. For the majority of us, audio is a fun hobby, not a rigorous experiment. I recognize that for you it's also your livelihood, so your perspective is different that most.
Dick Burwen designed the prototype for the Cello Audio Palette for Mark Levinson back in the mid 80's. He says in an article (linked below)
"I hate to admit it, but even I have been deceived by expectation. For many years I used a
hand-held tone control prototype of my own design. This device was never produced, but
became the predecessor of the Cello Audio Palette. It had 6 tone controls working in
different parts of the audio frequency range. Instead of using expensive, custom made,
two-gang, 60-position switches with 120 1% resistors for each 2-channel tone control, my
prototype used a cheap pair of 3-inch linear potentiometer sliders for the left and right
channels. Two fingers operated one closely spaced pair of sliders.
One day I was standing up, intently listening to my sound system while operating the tone
sliders at waist level. Having spent much of my life designing tone controls and feedback
systems, I knew exactly how each control sounded when boosting or attenuating. As I
carefully moved the sliders to refine the sound of the music, I clearly heard the improvement
in sound and left the sliders at my preferred position. When I looked down, I discovered the
tone controls were actually switched out. I had done nothing"
https://burwenbobcat.com/wordpress/.../SOUND-IMPROVEMENT-REAL-IMAGINED-OR-FRAUD.pdf
"I hate to admit it, but even I have been deceived by expectation. For many years I used a
hand-held tone control prototype of my own design. This device was never produced, but
became the predecessor of the Cello Audio Palette. It had 6 tone controls working in
different parts of the audio frequency range. Instead of using expensive, custom made,
two-gang, 60-position switches with 120 1% resistors for each 2-channel tone control, my
prototype used a cheap pair of 3-inch linear potentiometer sliders for the left and right
channels. Two fingers operated one closely spaced pair of sliders.
One day I was standing up, intently listening to my sound system while operating the tone
sliders at waist level. Having spent much of my life designing tone controls and feedback
systems, I knew exactly how each control sounded when boosting or attenuating. As I
carefully moved the sliders to refine the sound of the music, I clearly heard the improvement
in sound and left the sliders at my preferred position. When I looked down, I discovered the
tone controls were actually switched out. I had done nothing"
https://burwenbobcat.com/wordpress/.../SOUND-IMPROVEMENT-REAL-IMAGINED-OR-FRAUD.pdf