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Old 12th December 2019, 02:59 PM   #1061
dtossan is offline dtossan  Canada
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Default 3rd harmonic

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdsgames View Post
I believe that some H3 harmonic component might be further beneficial (less than H2 levels)

Interesting that H3 might be beneficial - in what ways?
I thought 3rd harmonics may sound edgy, harsh etc.
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:28 PM   #1062
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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I think that if H2 and h3 decay in harmony (so h3 is lower that h2) sound is further enhanced .I am trying to do blind testing on H2 and H3 levels to input that in Rev as SQ vs THD..




Anyway lots of work , but ts really fun .
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:29 PM   #1063
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Higher order harmonics sound increasingly worse as the order increases. 3rd order is still very low order and can add a sense of increased clarity if used at very low levels. It will however also produce some audible IMD which can become objectionable pretty quickly if too much.

Last edited by Markw4; 12th December 2019 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 12th December 2019, 03:44 PM   #1064
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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You know, if it is easy to A/B two HD settings, and or easy to turn HD on/off simply, then perhaps Revolution could become the dac of choice for training people how to hear distortion, and for distortion perception testing. Not exactly the listening enjoyment use cdsgames envisions, but it could turn out to be an important application for the dac and result in more units sold.
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Old 12th December 2019, 05:32 PM   #1065
SanjeevM is offline SanjeevM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdsgames View Post
Thx you jonjon77 , I agree with your assessment .


Mark at -121 to -124 db distortion is consider inaudible by majority of articles I have read


PLease also note that we are at the floor of our AP machine , I expect an improvement of 1 to 2 db on a better AP machine .


In the end its not significant , but I think that most people will enjoy the euphonics aspect of Rev much more than perfect THD . We had the same experience with Katana THD vs SQ. Main difference was H2 and H3 :-)



I also think that most people dont realize how "great sound with 3D stage" has some strong H2 harmonics associated to it.



In any case , I am playing at the moment with H2 and I am amazed how it changes the sound (at rather lowish levels)


I believe that some H3 harmonic component might be further beneficial (less than H2 levels)


New Revolution PCB is under testing .


ps. I think that we got rather better results than datasheet of es9038 (thd+h at -120) , our THD is -124.5 on one channel . We are employing a new trick on MCLK :-)
The ultimate test of musicality might be to do a blind test between Revolution DAC with 2nd harmonic added VS same vocal track played on a VPI Scout turntable with a tube preamp outputting to the same Amp.
See if the vocal from the DAC is as smooth, Airy and natural sounding as from the VPI.
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Old 12th December 2019, 08:41 PM   #1066
SSK84 is offline SSK84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdsgames View Post
Nirvana is a SMPS with very low noise (almost as good as Shanti) but no supercaps on output.


Its a cheaper solution that can give great results .


Still I consider Shanti to be a better (slightly) solution .
I would love to use it to power the RPi in my DigiOne Signature. Do you have some pictures of the board and case for us? How is it compared to the iFi, which has a very high common mode noise?
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Old 13th December 2019, 08:39 AM   #1067
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Nirvana has a way to earth the DC ground and we designed it to remove any current leakage


Noise wise its better than 1uV (ifi stated spec) and of course it goes up to 2.9A so more than enough power for even rpi4
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Old 13th December 2019, 08:55 AM   #1068
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Hi Sanjeev


I think that most analog solution are better sounding because of the harmonics content (and probably some other reasons) working synergistic



Revolution hasH2/H3 harmonic adjustable . Will it sound as good as a turntable with a tube amp ? I doubt it.



However , for any digital source , Revolution sounds "ok" ( with H2/H3 harmonic compensated SQ) and if you think that THD numbers matter than we deliver one of the best measured DAC above most toppings/smsl (especially in the price range)


1.2 ver Revolution PCB feedback of THD version has been "better than Katana SQ with 2-3 5V PSUs"


We improved further on this PCB (ver 1.3) and introduced SQ mode . I am able to see and understand the MCLK noise and how it affects the DAC output . I dare to say that our MCLKs have been very good (from Kali onwards) but Revolution last PCB is way above anything we did before



We are looking not only at jitter but phase noise and RF (hundreds of Mhz)

Last edited by cdsgames; 13th December 2019 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 13th December 2019, 02:13 PM   #1069
SanjeevM is offline SanjeevM
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Cdsgames: Because of the adjustable H2 feature, I am tempted to upgrade my (recently bought) Katana to the Revolution, but without letting the wife know of it
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Old 13th December 2019, 06:09 PM   #1070
Nanekiu is offline Nanekiu  Norway
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cdsgames maybe you should take a look at TIM of revolution DAC according to Miska developer of HQplayer it's also another factor in perceived SQ which most people don't take measurements of:Click the image to open in full size.
The four high peaks are part of the test tone. Rest of the lower level peaks shouldn't be there.
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