Interesting... may I ask why CS43198? I suppose you already had a lot of experience with ESS, it seemed like the "logical" choice.
"Unlike Ess, the sound is “darker” (not bright, low out of band noise)"
How much "darker" would you say the sound is?
Darker as ... "less trebble"?
Thx. I was wondering too.
Boss2 is actually not a classic HAT formfactor Boss1-like HAT. Didn't know that.
It rather looks like a standalone DAC attached to the Pi. I am a little disappointed. (Who cares !?!?
) Looking at the board shows that Allo put a lot of stuff on it. All that needs some extra space. Then why not a DAC motherboard and planting the PI4 on it!?? Anyhow.
We shouldn't forget the two-story "formfactor" Katana wasn't that great either.
No complaints!
Measurements look really nice.
The FFT looks similar to the "artificial sound quality thing" of the Revolution DAC.
If that one is non-artificial then Boss2 measures not as good as the Revolution DAC.
RPi4 without proper cooling might run a little hot though.
And Boss2 doesn't come with a Boss-like price. 117$ with case is not too bad though. It's just an 80% increase.
No seriously. There seems to be a lot more stuff on the board.On a first glance it looks pretty fair priced. I can nicely compare it to my Tone1 DAC which runs at the same price ballpark. For sure the Boss 2 would be a step up when looking at the measurements.
And I can hook it up my Shanti. Not bad.
Congratulations! Good old times.
( ...Allo made DACs?? )BTW: Will there be a Beekhuizen Review??? (Just kidding)
Good luck with the new Boss2. (seriously)
Good to see that a company keeps that audio HAT niche going. (To be honest I'd hoped to see a USB killer HAT popping up sooner or later - let see if the Boss2 can claim that spot)
Bottom line.
I am tempted.
My mind keep spinning. Sorry.
I suppose the mini display and external controls are not required for operation, aren't they?
I supposed all controls - as usual - are accessible via the driver, aren't they!??
I was thinking, why didn't you guys develop a CNC milled snug fitting case for the DAC only.
With just the GPIO header and a power plug out and perhaps an earth bolt (connecting to Shanti starground), you'd have a nice carry-around DAC-block at hand?
Such a setup I could hook-up to pretty much all RPIs with passive cooling cases that let you access the GPIO header. And such as case would also shield the DAC from external mess - EMC, vibrations, heat, dust, you name it.
Just an idea. I know, it's not wanted. I am just saying.
I suppose the mini display and external controls are not required for operation, aren't they?
I supposed all controls - as usual - are accessible via the driver, aren't they!??
I was thinking, why didn't you guys develop a CNC milled snug fitting case for the DAC only.
With just the GPIO header and a power plug out and perhaps an earth bolt (connecting to Shanti starground), you'd have a nice carry-around DAC-block at hand?
Such a setup I could hook-up to pretty much all RPIs with passive cooling cases that let you access the GPIO header. And such as case would also shield the DAC from external mess - EMC, vibrations, heat, dust, you name it.
Just an idea. I know, it's not wanted. I am just saying.
One more:
I now seem to understand why Allo recommends not to use the internal Wifi, even though
RPi4 130Mbit/s would be covering quite a solid streaming volume.
The internal RPi antenna (bottom left on RPI) looks pretty much cornered.
Beside that, if you look at the attached image I am wondering how you want to cool the CPU and the USB controller?
These seem to be 50% covered by the audio board.
Hmmh. Ok. Ok. I know. All non-issues - as usual.
Cheers.
PS: Is that I/O or display board soldered to the DAC board? Or can it be removed?
I now seem to understand why Allo recommends not to use the internal Wifi, even though
RPi4 130Mbit/s would be covering quite a solid streaming volume.
The internal RPi antenna (bottom left on RPI) looks pretty much cornered.
Beside that, if you look at the attached image I am wondering how you want to cool the CPU and the USB controller?
These seem to be 50% covered by the audio board.
Hmmh. Ok. Ok. I know. All non-issues - as usual.
Cheers.
PS: Is that I/O or display board soldered to the DAC board? Or can it be removed?
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It looks like the display and connectors are all soldered onto the board, but they could be easily disconnected from the enclosure and mounted in any new enclosure.
There are a couple of low profile heatsinks you could put on a rpi 4 if you felt the need for cooling. But an rpi 4 running as a streamer isn't CPU intensive and you can underclock it without effecting performance.
It's unfortunate that rpi's don't have a connector for external antennas - people feel like metal enclosures make their rpi's feel like a higher quality project, but it always kills wifi reception. A little connector on the board the way the ASUS Tinkerboard does it would solve that problem without having to hack your board.
Allo seems to be moving away from the pure DIY pi hat market, which probably makes a lot of sense for them as a company.
There are a couple of low profile heatsinks you could put on a rpi 4 if you felt the need for cooling. But an rpi 4 running as a streamer isn't CPU intensive and you can underclock it without effecting performance.
It's unfortunate that rpi's don't have a connector for external antennas - people feel like metal enclosures make their rpi's feel like a higher quality project, but it always kills wifi reception. A little connector on the board the way the ASUS Tinkerboard does it would solve that problem without having to hack your board.
Allo seems to be moving away from the pure DIY pi hat market, which probably makes a lot of sense for them as a company.
Yep. It remains Allo's secret why they attach a flimsy display, while the RPi offers tons of options to attach all kind of displays.
Beside that it's 2021. Who seriously wants to play around with flimsy displays or $5 remotes. Just write an app once and you're set.
I am not sure. The USB DAC as well as the streamer markets are tough ones. The Allo brand basically doesn't exist. From what I've seen the Revolution never really made large headlines. Perhaps Allo can very well cope with their market share though, I don't know.
I do think the DIY RPi niche is still important for Allo. That's where the business started. And that DIY environment fits their "brand". Allo IMO can't compete against the Topping, Khadas, SMSL or Gustard brands. In the DIY RPi niche they could be king though.
But hey. Allo knows what they are doing. Diy-Audio brought them up. Now they have to and want to run their own show. Fair enough.
Beside that it's 2021. Who seriously wants to play around with flimsy displays or $5 remotes. Just write an app once and you're set.
I am not sure. The USB DAC as well as the streamer markets are tough ones. The Allo brand basically doesn't exist. From what I've seen the Revolution never really made large headlines. Perhaps Allo can very well cope with their market share though, I don't know.
I do think the DIY RPi niche is still important for Allo. That's where the business started. And that DIY environment fits their "brand". Allo IMO can't compete against the Topping, Khadas, SMSL or Gustard brands. In the DIY RPi niche they could be king though.
But hey. Allo knows what they are doing. Diy-Audio brought them up. Now they have to and want to run their own show. Fair enough.
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I think any DIYer could just remove the displays or connectors pretty easily if they didn't want them. I think Allo should have just charged a little more and attached those on headers instead of soldering them, but maybe they'll update that down the line. A lot of the higher end boards that Audiophonics is selling seem to include a little oled display which displays things that your stream app display often hides (Volumio doesn't tell me the bitrate that my DAC board is working with). But the Audiophonics displays and other connectors are on headers, not soldered on.
As far as putting a display on an rpi, yes, you can do that. I have the rpi 7" touch display on my Volumio setup, but I typically use my phone or my laptop to control it. In a way, "live" controls on your streamer are an anachronism more for presentation than function. Lots of people are used to headless streaming setups these days - pretty much everyone has a phone that they do everything on anyway.
I think the only real criticism I have is that they soldered those connectors on instead of just putting some headers on the board.
As far as putting a display on an rpi, yes, you can do that. I have the rpi 7" touch display on my Volumio setup, but I typically use my phone or my laptop to control it. In a way, "live" controls on your streamer are an anachronism more for presentation than function. Lots of people are used to headless streaming setups these days - pretty much everyone has a phone that they do everything on anyway.
I think the only real criticism I have is that they soldered those connectors on instead of just putting some headers on the board.
Ok. I know. That'll be the last annoyance. Promised.
For us DIY-Audio folks it would probably be nice to get access to
just the board, without the gadgets.
Perhaps @ $99 - Just a thought.
Such a DAC offering might even be one of if not the best ever below $100.
Enjoy.
You can get it for $99, remove the pi4, Wifi dongle and the sd card from the config drop down menus
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Hello
I will start with driver.
It includes everything to fully control the DAC. However , the players must change the GUI to allow for the extra controls. Some (Moode if I am not mistaken) already do so.
Oled.
The software that controls the OLED (open source) must be installed and gives full control on filters/volume/IP display , bit rates/sample. We are also working to include power off .(not yet implemented)
Power (1 or 2 PSU) by opening the top casing(alu) or bottom (acrylic) . By default it will come with with one
Heat Sink
Included on the ALU casing with power pads that take the heat and transfer it to casing . Both CPU and convertor are targeted. Also note that above CPU there is no PCB on Boss2.
Earthing (nut included on alu case) or use Nirvana earthed DC
We have done extensive testing on WIFI. Once its inside the ALU case I cannot recommend it. Please use a WIFI dongle or Ethernet
USbridge 2 .. give me 4 weeks for an update
I will start with driver.
It includes everything to fully control the DAC. However , the players must change the GUI to allow for the extra controls. Some (Moode if I am not mistaken) already do so.
Oled.
The software that controls the OLED (open source) must be installed and gives full control on filters/volume/IP display , bit rates/sample. We are also working to include power off .(not yet implemented)
Power (1 or 2 PSU) by opening the top casing(alu) or bottom (acrylic) . By default it will come with with one
Heat Sink
Included on the ALU casing with power pads that take the heat and transfer it to casing . Both CPU and convertor are targeted. Also note that above CPU there is no PCB on Boss2.
Earthing (nut included on alu case) or use Nirvana earthed DC
We have done extensive testing on WIFI. Once its inside the ALU case I cannot recommend it. Please use a WIFI dongle or Ethernet
USbridge 2 .. give me 4 weeks for an update
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Hmmh.
Cooling:
The image taken from the Allo Homepage I posted earlier got to be misleading then.
To me it looks like the CPU is (partially) covered. If Allo says it isn't than it's the way it is.
OK. People would have to buy the $169 Alu version for proper cooling. That's bad.
But that also implies that Allo is well aware of the cooling subject.
And my comment was not such a "non-issue".
Wifi:
Ok. Allo confirmed it. Use a dongle instead - basta.
Many RPI4 case manufactures accepted the issue around Wifi blockage over the last year and changed their cases accordingly by introducing some kind of RF windows.
Earthing:
Hmmh. That's a pity. On one hand you introduced that great feature on your great
power supplies, but than there's no chance, or better not an easy way, to connect your brand new audio device. Perhaps you could consider it for Boss2 Rev2.
Last but not least.
The Boss 2 - the streamer/player version has obviously nothing to do with the Boss 1, except for the name.
Is there any chance that we see a "real" Boss 2. A no-frills HAT - just an audio interface???
Perhaps Allo could just sell the plain DAC without that IO board, Oled, case and remote. Without these gadgets even a price of $79- $89 should be possible.
At that point we might be able to use an existing RPi cooling case, like an Argon Neo
and could even use onboard Wifi (without I/O board and with RF Window) and wouldn't have to
get bothered by using 3rd party Wifi drivers and a complete noisy and power hungry USB environment
that would never go to sleep! (Edit: I just realized using a external case might not be possible, since the DAC board
seems to exceed the GPIO header by ~half an inch - it then would require a cable adapter to attach the Boss2 to the GPIO header.)
And not to forget, we wouldn't rely on somebody introducing and maintaining that custom OLED driver and SW.
Allo you said it yourself. The Boss 1 was your best selling product. Why then making things so complicated now?
Good luck with the new product.
Enjoy.
Cooling:
The image taken from the Allo Homepage I posted earlier got to be misleading then.
To me it looks like the CPU is (partially) covered. If Allo says it isn't than it's the way it is.
OK. People would have to buy the $169 Alu version for proper cooling. That's bad.
But that also implies that Allo is well aware of the cooling subject.
And my comment was not such a "non-issue".
Wifi:
Ok. Allo confirmed it. Use a dongle instead - basta.
Many RPI4 case manufactures accepted the issue around Wifi blockage over the last year and changed their cases accordingly by introducing some kind of RF windows.
Earthing:
Hmmh. That's a pity. On one hand you introduced that great feature on your great
power supplies, but than there's no chance, or better not an easy way, to connect your brand new audio device. Perhaps you could consider it for Boss2 Rev2.
Last but not least.
The Boss 2 - the streamer/player version has obviously nothing to do with the Boss 1, except for the name.
Is there any chance that we see a "real" Boss 2. A no-frills HAT - just an audio interface???
Perhaps Allo could just sell the plain DAC without that IO board, Oled, case and remote. Without these gadgets even a price of $79- $89 should be possible.
At that point we might be able to use an existing RPi cooling case, like an Argon Neo
and could even use onboard Wifi (without I/O board and with RF Window) and wouldn't have to
get bothered by using 3rd party Wifi drivers and a complete noisy and power hungry USB environment
that would never go to sleep! (Edit: I just realized using a external case might not be possible, since the DAC board
seems to exceed the GPIO header by ~half an inch - it then would require a cable adapter to attach the Boss2 to the GPIO header.)
And not to forget, we wouldn't rely on somebody introducing and maintaining that custom OLED driver and SW.
Allo you said it yourself. The Boss 1 was your best selling product. Why then making things so complicated now?
Good luck with the new product.
Enjoy.
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There is nothing complicated about Boss2 .
Buy it in alu case with WIFI dongle , Oled , RPI4/ remote for 169$
Buy it with acylic , oled , remote for 99$
Earthing , I don't think you understood. Alu case does offer earth nut (for Shanti ). For the cheap version , use Nirvana. There is a way to connect earth lug to acrylic as well.. . Of course your can use even the cheapest SMPS with very small degradation on THD
As far as why not have the same form factor. Simple , its impossible . As we go and improve our devices more real estate is obligatory . In fact , I would say that another 20% will be necessary in the future as NDK SDA are not being produced for a while.. I refused to downgrade the clocks to epcon or similar (as you will see , most manufacturers went this way)
Boss2 is a leap over Boss .Let us know what you think when you get it. Please allow 2-3 days minimum for a burn in as we used 2 supercaps. Use 1.7Vrms and NOS
Buy it in alu case with WIFI dongle , Oled , RPI4/ remote for 169$
Buy it with acylic , oled , remote for 99$
Earthing , I don't think you understood. Alu case does offer earth nut (for Shanti ). For the cheap version , use Nirvana. There is a way to connect earth lug to acrylic as well.. . Of course your can use even the cheapest SMPS with very small degradation on THD
As far as why not have the same form factor. Simple , its impossible . As we go and improve our devices more real estate is obligatory . In fact , I would say that another 20% will be necessary in the future as NDK SDA are not being produced for a while.. I refused to downgrade the clocks to epcon or similar (as you will see , most manufacturers went this way)
Boss2 is a leap over Boss .Let us know what you think when you get it. Please allow 2-3 days minimum for a burn in as we used 2 supercaps. Use 1.7Vrms and NOS
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One last comment on OLED
As you know , our driver is already submitted and accepted in Rasbien . Any player that has the latest kernel will work with Boss2 . Since we have an OLED and access to all controls , players do not need to change the GUI to give control to all DAC settings. Our software will give you full control .
As you know , our driver is already submitted and accepted in Rasbien . Any player that has the latest kernel will work with Boss2 . Since we have an OLED and access to all controls , players do not need to change the GUI to give control to all DAC settings. Our software will give you full control .
Regarding footprint.
Anybody looked at the Khadas Tone2 Pro USB DAC recently!?!?
A bit larger then Credit Card. I2S input. Even differential outputs!
And the CNC milled case acts as cooling/shield and damping.
They even manage to attach a Qualcomm Bluetooth dongle to it.
The specs doesn't seem to differ that much from pretty high quality DACs.
OK. The Tone 2 is rather Allo Revolution class as a USB DAC and @ $200 MSRP.
And for sure it's non-DIY.
That much about the footprint argument.
I am just saying.
Yep. I know. You guys never asked. I tell you anyhow. That's what this nice forum is all about, isn't it !?!?
Enjoy.
Anybody looked at the Khadas Tone2 Pro USB DAC recently!?!?
A bit larger then Credit Card. I2S input. Even differential outputs!
And the CNC milled case acts as cooling/shield and damping.
They even manage to attach a Qualcomm Bluetooth dongle to it.
The specs doesn't seem to differ that much from pretty high quality DACs.
OK. The Tone 2 is rather Allo Revolution class as a USB DAC and @ $200 MSRP.
And for sure it's non-DIY.
That much about the footprint argument.
I am just saying.
Yep. I know. You guys never asked. I tell you anyhow. That's what this nice forum is all about, isn't it !?!?
Enjoy.