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dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
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Old 15th April 2019, 01:11 PM   #421
soekris is offline soekris  Denmark
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dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Daniel View Post
Thanks for the explanation. So how was it done in dam1021, which I also have, and with few simple mods it sounded quite good?
Basically the same, just with a little higher target impedance.
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Old 15th April 2019, 02:26 PM   #422
Peter Daniel is offline Peter Daniel  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soekris View Post
Basically the same, just with a little higher target impedance.
So if opamps were used as regulators for Vref, I don’t see any large caps following them.
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Old 15th April 2019, 05:01 PM   #423
Blitz is offline Blitz  Germany
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Originally Posted by analog_sa View Post
The only films that can manage this are the Panasonic ECPU. No leaded or wound part is likely to be any good at high frequencies due to the added inductance.

But yes, those ceramics are very tempting to discard.
Really ? Maybe Iam looking at the wrong chart here, I have randomly picked a pretty standard WIMA MKP10 data sheet...have a look at the very bottom, the last, dotted curves stand for the metallized series and they have a nice low impedance even at 1mhz.

Kurven - WIMA – Competence in Capacitors

In the tdk white paperunder 2.6 we have similar curves on mkp where you would anticipate their ESR goes down until 3mhz before it starts to raise again:

https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/...nformation.pdf

...so, yes the impedance goes up ...at 100mhz...but this may not our topic anymore, no ?

And I have yet to ask the guys from mundorf who claim their stuffis non-inductive or very low inductive at least etc...but if a MkP10 can behave that nicely in ESR at 3mhz, I would guess a Mundorf can do better, no?

And I am with Peter, I have never found it to sound satisfactory when you mix capacitors at the same position in a circuit. But I found no issues to mix them when they are the exact same type, but in different values, so a 10uF MKP10 mixed with a 0,1uF MKP 10 should sound like one cap.

So, which one are the ugly little ceramics toworry about ? Peter, I guess youare already pulling them ? BG with ceramics in parallel sounds really like a bizarre idea...

Last edited by Blitz; 15th April 2019 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 15th April 2019, 06:29 PM   #424
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
Really ?
Yes, although this is not an argument i have any real interest in. You are quoting ESR, which is not impedance. Once you include the effects of ESL and the lead inductance the picture looks very different.

Otoh cannot imagine any good reason for the heavy bypassing of the polymer caps. It achieves what exactly? Slightly less noise in the MHz region? Does it even matter? I am also with PD and never bypass electrolytics in an analogue circuit. Let the bypassing stay where it is needed - in the PS of the shift registers.
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Old 15th April 2019, 07:02 PM   #425
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Why the cables where the LPF ceramic sat?

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Old 15th April 2019, 08:52 PM   #426
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
I think he is just tapping the output from that point, bypassing a few inches of pcb track.
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Old 15th April 2019, 09:25 PM   #427
Peter Daniel is offline Peter Daniel  Canada
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Exactly, this is the actual output when output buffers are not being used.
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Old 15th April 2019, 09:52 PM   #428
Peter Daniel is offline Peter Daniel  Canada
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So I’m feeling adventurous tonight and would like to remove some of those ceramic caps and replace them with 0.1uf BG NX. There are 8 sets of four caps and it seems like each quadruplet is in parallel with a large electrolytic. Are they all the same value? Why 4 per each set?

BTW, after recent discussion here in this thread, I went back to original electrolytics, just to make sure that I was not imagining things, but I didn’t like how the DAC sounded. The harmony and naturalness was missing and I quickly put back my “magic” caps.

I don’t expect much from removing those ceramics, but at this point I need to check it out.
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Old 15th April 2019, 10:02 PM   #429
Blitz is offline Blitz  Germany
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Cant wait to hear your report about the result...
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Old 15th April 2019, 10:29 PM   #430
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
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dam1941 - Next Gen Discrete R-2R Sign Magnitude 24 bit 384 Khz DAC module
MeToo

Did the 1021 mk1 have a muting arrangement at output? Tempted to do something about the 1941 muting fets. Would removing them cause mayhem at sample rate change? Perhaps using the gate signal to operate muting relays could be a good option...
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